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Author Topic:   the evolution of clothes?
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 8 of 161 (173242)
01-03-2005 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by idontknowagoodname
01-02-2005 8:56 PM


not sure if i can do this without referencing eden metaphorically.
man's great evolutionary advantage is technology. instead of adapting biologically, we began to be able to adapt with our creations. clothing is one such technology, that helped people survive.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 11 of 161 (173271)
01-03-2005 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by coffee_addict
01-03-2005 2:15 AM


Now the question of why we became "ashamed" of our nakedness is a whole other issue. Perhaps EvC's sociologists could fill us on this one.
coldness = shrinkage = shame.
i bet you'll find that even still women are more prone to nudity than men.
on a serious note, the story is an etiology on why, written after the fact, and since the story has to do with awareness, so would the reason for wearing clothing.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 18 of 161 (173659)
01-04-2005 3:12 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by nator
01-03-2005 11:01 AM


I suspect that this depends upon culture. I wonder if the cultures that glorified the male form as the ultimate in human beauty (like ancient Rome and Greece) experienced more male than female nudity?
well my bet was exactly that these cultures are less common than those that glorified female beauty. i just chose to phrase it in a more humerous way.
and yes, i suspect they did experience more male nudity.
Currently, female bodies are strongly considered more beautiful than male bodies, and thus women are more conscious of their bodies being observed and evaluated for physical beauty by the entire culture.
oh, and here's the kicker. it's a self-fulfilling prophesy. this is the reason women wear makeup and not men. and since beauty is a factor in sexual selection, and i'm sure is hereditary -- well you know where i'm going. the women actually DO become more beautiful than the men.
...at least, certain, narrowly-defined forms of the female body are considered beautiful.
ironically, in my art class, we all enjoyed drawing our male model more than our female model. even the straight guys. he just had a nicer looking, more interesting body.
but i would also suspect that margin for male beauty is smaller than that of female beauty (in this society). ever hear the expression "the clothes make the man, but women look good in anything?"

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Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Graculus, posted 01-04-2005 9:54 AM arachnophilia has replied
 Message 23 by contracycle, posted 01-04-2005 11:43 AM arachnophilia has replied
 Message 112 by lfen, posted 01-23-2005 8:54 PM arachnophilia has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 20 of 161 (173716)
01-04-2005 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Graculus
01-04-2005 9:54 AM


i see, yes. all of those make a lot of sense as well.
i was just being facetious, really, with my original point.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 31 of 161 (174241)
01-05-2005 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by contracycle
01-04-2005 11:43 AM


Its only self-fulfilling becuase we fulfill it. There is more European history of extravagantly and revealingly dressed men (come on, hotpants over tights like Francis Drake?) than women.
sure.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 118 of 161 (180090)
01-24-2005 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by lfen
01-23-2005 8:54 PM


I found this isn't gender dependent.
no, in fact one would presume it to the be the other way around, thus the "ironically"
I found most attractive were the hardest to draw because they were so smooth in the transitions.
is that what they're calling it these days? frankly, it probably has a lot to do with the attraction. i've heard stories about the attractive people being more distracting to the class. i myself am the reverse. i find drawing to be very sexual, and attraction helps hold my attention.
I also discovered that a woman who had rolls was also fun to draw and began to wonder if that was partially a factor in some classic paintings.
quite.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 129 of 161 (180679)
01-26-2005 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by lfen
01-24-2005 2:49 AM


drawrings.
My experience of drawing and the way I was taught one had to look analytically and render lines, values, shapes.
well, yes, of course. i'm sort of unusual, and i'm well aware that i am the exception to a good many rules in artistic areas. my drawing process relates entirely to light and shadow. on good nights, i totally disconnect from any cognitive process (ie: "this is a hand! and that's a finger!") and just focus on what things look like.
since attraction and sexuality are very low in the hierarchy of conciousness, i find that just a little bit helps to hold my attention. i tend to draw better when i find things asthetically pleasing. you'll find similar things in photographers (also a member of that group) in that they attempt to make even ugly things pretty.
It used to amaze me that when I would step back that there would be a drawing there and I would wonder who had done it for all I had done was try to render relationships onto the paper.
i don't really think i draw. because when i do it well, i've shut off my concious processes, and done it entirely mechanically and subconciously. when i think about it, or can't focus into the proper mindset, i can't draw at all.
Drawing seemed to me a very abstract thing and if the model was a woman I found very attractive it was hard for me to let go of her totality the gestalt of which was "beautiful desirable woman" and instead look to the particular abstract shape of the shadow, or the shape of the highlight on her breast, or cheek, or the apparent angle of her shoulder to her neck and thus lose my awareness of her body, momentarily, as a total and instead analyze what I was visually seeing.
i taught myself years back to see a totally different way. so i can (sometimes) shut one way of seeing off completely, and usually totally at will. i say sometimes because about half the time i just plain suck. but it never seems to have much to do with attraction, since we used the same models for long stretches of time.
Perhaps you draw differently, maybe they are teaching drawing differently?
the first option. my experience in art classes is that i've ignored what most of the teachers have taught, and drawn fundamentally differently than most of the students. for starters, i'm about three times as fast. i had one teacher that did teach differently and i blame it on her even though i don't follow her method exactly.

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