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Author | Topic: Why is it that God couldn't have made Creation with evolution? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
To believe in evolution (molecules to man) one normally believes that there was millions of years of death before mankind evolved to his present form.
In Matthew 19:4-5 it says, And He (Jesus) answered and said to them, Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female.(NKJ) Jesus says here that he made Adam and Eve in the beginning, not millions of years later. The word beginning in the Greek is arche, strong’s # G746, which speaks of origin and the extremity of a thing. Also in Genesis, which is written in a narrative form, states six times God calling his creation Good. Death is not good to a loving and righteous God, that is why God told them not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:17). Plus 1 Cor 15:21-22 states, For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.(NKJ) So death came by Adam’s sin, not millions of years before. Exodus 20:9-11 states, Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.(NKJ) So God was telling the Israelites to work six days and rest on the seventh day because that is what God did during the creation of the universe. Also man and animals were originally vegetarians (Gen 1:29-30), if one according to their presuppositions sees the fossil record as millions of years and dinosaurs as pre-human creatures, then one would see animals eating each other before mankind, but that is not what Genesis 1:29-30 states. Evolution (molecules to man) needs time and without time evolution cannot happen. So why do we believe that Jesus took on human flesh, was sinless, died on the cross to condemn sin in the flesh, took our punishment, then rose on the third day, and now sits at the right hand of the father only to return for His bride? Because of the written words of scripture. Why should we believe in a literal six day creation and plants and animals reproducing according to their kinds (Gen 1:11,12,21,24,25) not evolving, because of the written words of Scripture. For all scripture is written by the inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (2 Timothy 3:16) Is God's Word authority, or is man's words and minds authority? A belief in evolution comes to the conclusion that our brains are random chemical reactions (this would make knowledge debatable), but God made man in his own image (Gen 1:26) giving us knowledge and rational thought. Edited by Apologetics, : No reason given.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
Sorry about the sentence structure. I’ll work on it.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
1. The Bible states that all scripture is inspired by God (2 Tim 3:16) so it is not man’s authority, but Gods. Also that no prophecy came by the will of man, but men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:21)
The prominent historical people in the Bible have many of their flaws listed and exposed. If you were to write a book yourself you most likely would not record your flaws. This also shows that the Bible is inspired by God and men of God lead by the Holy Spirit wrote the scripture. The Computer did not write these words, but was the instrument that I used to convey this message to you. 2. It not a hard interpretation when one reads the bible as literal history where the context allows, just as it is easy in American language to tell the difference between poetry and a narrative. The authority of a message does not change based on who hears it, but who gives the information.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
If you would please do the PNT for me, since I do not know how to do one. Then we all can resume the debate there.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
anglagard writes: "Which of the over 3000 versions of the Bible is the official word of God? Last time I asked this question (Message 1), IIRC only two fundamentalists had the guts to answer. Do you?" The 3,000 versions you are referring to are translations. This means they carry the same message, just worded different. There are 24,000 Greek New Testament manuscripts that have been found. There is only a 2% variation in them. This variation is changing the name Jesus, to the Anointed One, or Messiah, etc. Same thing different words.
anglagard:=anglagard writes: "It is a falsehood to state that Juvenal, Suetonius or Tacitus never said anything bad about the Romans, or Froissart about the French or English, and that is just a start right off the top of my head. You must be totally unfamiliar with all historic writing." I have heard of Juvenal, Suetonius, and Tacitus but I have not read their work. But by the description that you have given they spoke bad about their culture or nation, not about themselves. My point was speaking of ones own flaws. Edited by Apologetics, : No reason given.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
Hooah212002 writes: "tis a mighty fine use of circular reasoning you have right there." Your right. We will have to finish the debate on the inerrancy of scripture before I could prove my point that God inspired scripture. But you can see how with my presuppositions that I see the Bible as inspired by God.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
Otto Tellick writes: "Are you familiar with the game called "telephone" (or "gossip")? After a message has been whispered across a chain of, say, 20 people, the last person in the chain says it out loud to the group. Then the first person says what the original message was, and everyone laughs about the nature and extent of change in the message." There is a problem with your telephone analogy. First it is a closed system. One person is whispering to another then to another and so on. In real life there is a form of checks and balance. Those who know the truth are there to hear the mixed messaged and correct that message.Second the Hebrew scribes were very particular in their translations. Every letter in the Hebrew alphabet has a numerical value. When a manuscript was copied they would add up the numerical value of the original to that of the copy. If the two did not match, the copy was burned. Edited by Apologetics, : No reason given.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------- In Matthew 19:4-5 it says, And He (Jesus) answered and said to them, Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female.(NKJ) Jesus says here that he made Adam and Eve in the beginning, not millions of years later. The word beginning in the Greek is arche, strong’s # G746, which speaks of origin and the extremity of a thing. --------------------------------------------------------------------- kbertsche writes: The question is, "What did Jesus mean by the beginning? Beginning of what?" This is answered by the context... Consider Mark 10:6 as a cross reference, But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. Here it states beginning of the creation.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
kbertsche writes: Note that the text uses the word "good," not "perfect." Hebrew has a word for "perfect" and this was pointedly not used. The Hebrew language is much larger than ours. One word in the Hebrew has more than one English meaning. The word that is translated as good in the English, speaks of best and excellence in the Hebrew. Strong’s # H2896
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
Coyote writes: "If believers can't agree among themselves, and can't produce empirical evidence in support of their beliefs, why should their beliefs be considered in any manner in scientific discussions?" One of many empirical evidences for a Biblical world view is this: There are billions of people on this earth at this moment, not to mention how many people there would be counting the past. Yet humans have only reproduced humans. Same with livestock. That is repeatable and experimental evidence. Do you have empirical, evidence for your worldview? Edited by Apologetics, : No reason given.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
Coyote writes: And the "humans have only reproduced humans" works only as far as Homo erectus or Homo habilis, prior to which there are non-human ancestors. And if you go back far enough there are ape-like ancestors, then monkey-like ancestors (more accurately, ape-toothed monkeys). That's what the fossil record and genetic studies have shown, supported by a myriad of other sciences. Empirical: Based on or characterized by observation and experiment instead of theory. Please give a better example of your worldviews experimental evidence. What experiments have people with your presuppositions done that has observed monkeys reproducing humans. You must have some since you say you have "empirical" evidence.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
kbertsche writes: This is a parallel passage to Mt 19:4-5. My comments of Re: God using evolution (Message 28) apply just as well to this passage. In context, then, Mk 10:6 means "the beginning of the creation of mankind." You cannot change the scripture to meet your worldview. If Mark wanted to speak of the creation of mankind he would have said that. Instead he said "But from the beginning of creation...". The first step in Hermeneutics (study of scripture) is to allow scripture to interpret scripture. As a literal interpretation this passage fits with the rest of scripture, but with your interpretation you must reinterpret other verses like the first chapter of Genesis.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
Otto Tellick writes: "Larger"?? In what dimensions? Grammatically Hebrew words typically have a triconsonanta root cosisting of three consonants separated by vowels. Changes in adding or removing of the vowels alters the meaning of a root. prefixes and suffixes are also added to the roots to modify the meaning. You have masculine and feminine in both the verb ad noun forms. Each letter carried a numerical value also. Numbers had special significance in the Hebrew culture.
In other words, do your particular views about the linguistics of the Bible allow you any means for accepting (as opposed to denying) plain truths about the physical reality we occupy? Yes, since the study of the language of the Bible lets me know that the Bible is to be taken literal.Since it is literal I can look at observable science, archeology, astronomy, etc. to see if the scripture are true. If the Bible was not literal I would not know what to believe and what not to believe. With this worldview I then do not have to look at the world with a humanistic or naturalistic worldview. So I see observable science (radio halos in Zircon crystals, Carbon 14 in diamonds, etc.) confirming the Bible's accuracy. objective Please name a worldview that interpreat evidence in a neutral way.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
DrJones writes: Where in the post does he claim that monkies reproduced humans. ...prior to which there are non-human ancestors. And if you go back far enough there are ape-like ancestors, then monkey-like ancestors... Reverse the order since he is going from present to past. From past to present he has monkey-like ancestors, ape-like ancestors, non-human, then to human. If you are still confused please read a couple of previous posts.
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Apologetics Junior Member (Idle past 5335 days) Posts: 19 From: Michigan Joined: |
Otto Tellick writes: When people are disagreeing about their faiths, their interpretations of scripture, their notions of God, God's will, God's judgment, etc, etc, what is the basis or process for resolving their disputes? That is why a literal interpretation is important. In the Biblical world view scripture should settle the disputes. To prove this statement we would have to go into more detail then we probably should. To the first part of your response. We have those who do not hold to a literal interpretation, that causes them to disagree with others. Some Christians sadly have become confused. They do not know why they believe what they believe. They may not know how observable science attests for the accuracy of scripture.
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