Define literal vs non-literal.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have already told you, every single time evening/morning are used in scripture, it refers to a single 24 hour day.
Anytime a number precedes YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So your rebuttel in the entire Bible is ONE verse? Lets take a look at it.I made two points: Anytime evening AND morning are used together it refers to a 24 hour day.Anytime a number precedes YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day.5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake [a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttimea day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light.Not sure where you are going with this, it refers to a single day. I find it amazing you state flat out that I am lying, then admit it MAY be saying a long period of time. The context implies a day will arrive....not a long period of time.quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have also give you this: Mark 10:6 (NKJV)
6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’
This only works if its a literal 24 hour day, not billions of years.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It makes perfect sense. There isnt anything nonsensical about it. If it read "From the beginning god made them male and female"...I could understand your point of view. But it states "from the beginning of creation".

quote:

---

Anytime a number precedes YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day.

​

5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake [a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttimea day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light.

​

Not sure where you are going with this, it refers to a single day. I find it amazing you state flat out that I am lying, then admit it MAY be saying a long period of time. The context implies a day will arrive....not a long period of time.

---

Try using a better translation, or working directly from the Hebrew. If you look a the rest of the chapter, you will see that this is speaking of the "Day of the Lord", not a single 24-hour day.For more information see this paper by Greg Neyman:
http://www.answersincreation.org/word_study_yom.htm

I disagree. It you read the context, it refers to a 24 hour day, in reference to verse 7. I do agree that elsewhere, day refers to a long period of time.1Behold,(A) a day is coming for the LORD, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst."Day" could mean the first day or a long period of time I suppose.2For(B) I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and(C) the city shall be taken(D) and the houses plundered(E) and the women raped.(F) Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3(G) Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle."Day" could mean 24 hours or long period of time.4(H) On that day his feet shall stand(I) on(J) the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and(K) the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.On that day-could easily mean a long period of time.5And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from(L) the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.6(M) On that day(N) there shall be no light, cold, or frost.[a] 7(O) And there shall be a unique[b] day,(P) which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but(Q) at evening time there shall be light.When this "day" arrives, it describes when the lord shall arrive. That most certainly refers to a 24 hour day, the first day.8(R) On that day(S) living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to(T) the eastern sea[c] and half of them to(U) the western sea.[d] It shall continue in summer as in winter."This day" could refer back to the first day, 24 hour day, or a long period of time.But the crux of my entire argument is that when evening AND mornig are used, its always a 24 hour day. Nowhere does this verse state "morning". I am comparing what Genesis states (evening and morning) to where that terminology is used elsewhere in scripture.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.Edited by hERICtic, : Simple grammatical and other dumb mistakes!

KB,I find it hysterical, in your site you gave, it states:

quote:

---

"However, Luther and Calvin did not have the means of modern science at their disposal. At the time, geocentricity was still accepted!"

---

In other words, bc science has shown the universe/earth to be billions of years old.......we cannot accept what scripture actually states, we need it to fit science. Your author clearly says the reason it was accepted to be 6 literal days is bc the science was unknown.I have stated this to Peg since we started this debate: It was quite recent that it means long periods of time in Genesis. Why? Bc the evidence is so overwhelming that it cannot mean a 6 day creation period. So the Bible has to change to fit science.Its absurd to state it refers to long periods of time. Just the description itself, evening and morning, one day clearly shows a 24 hour period.Exodus twice states the earth was created in 6 days.Neither Genesis nor Exodus give any indication it was long periods of time.Again I will state EVERY time evening and morning are used with YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day.EVERY time a number precedes YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

quote:

---

Again I will state EVERY time evening and morning are used with YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day.

​

EVERY time a number precedes YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day.

---

And again your statement is false.Further, you do not understand what you are talking about. The numbers on the days of creation in Genesis 1 do not PRECEDE "yom"; they come AFTER "yom". Apparently you don't realize that a number precedes "yom" rarely, if ever, in the Hebrew Bible.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again I will state EVERY time evening and morning are used with YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day.
EVERY time a number precedes YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You have yet to show a statement I have made is false yet. You have given ONE verse which does not even mention evening and morning. This is known as a strawman.Second:And there was evening, and there was morningthe first day.Number precedes YOM. I could give you more scripture where a number precedes YOM. So my statement is not false.But some translations do have it as "day one".Would it have been more clear if I stated anytime a number is used with YOM? If that is the case, EVERY time its used in that respect, it refers to a 24 hour period.

quote:

---

And there was evening, and there was morningthe first day.

​

Number precedes YOM. I could give you more scripture where a number precedes YOM. So my statement is not false.

---

No, look again. Number precedes day. The word yom does not appear in the text of any English Bible that I have seen.The word yom is Hebrew, and appears in the Hebrew text, not the English text. When you talk about yom you are talking about the Hebrew text. In Hebrew, adjectives (such as ordinal and cardinal numbers) nearly always follow the noun that they modify. This is true for the days of Gen 1. The numbers follow "yom." They do not precede it.You are not stating your "rules" very clearly, and they seem to change a bit every time you state them. (Earlier it was "evening/morning," implying one OR the other, and now it is "evening and morning," requiring both.) Some questions for you about these "rules":
1) Have you personally checked EVERY single occurrence of "yom" with evening, morning, and numbers in the Hebrew Bible?
2) If not, how can you be so confident in stating that "EVERY time ..."? Please provide a reference or other support for these claims.

I know YOM is Hebrew. It means "day". I'm not sure what you are trying to imply here.I am going by Biblegateway.com Some translations have it day one, some have it the first day. Regardless of how it its translated, when a number is used with day, it always refers to a 24 hour period. You are absolutely correct. I ,at times, type too fast and do not explain myself very well. I have limited time. Sorry if I am unclear. I believe there was a post that I edited four times to you bc each time I read it, it was very confusing, so I wasted more time correcting it! LOL. My apologies for that.Although I am not sure why you are confused by my mention of evening and morning. I said anytime evening/morning or evening and morning are used with YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day. It appears that in both instance I am saying when YOM is used with both words-evening and morning, it refers to 24 hours. Im not sure why you see a difference. I have based my statement of looking up the words in Biblegateway.com, finding all verses which use evening and morning, with day and using LinkeWordProject for the translation. I also have been to quite a few Christian websites which have stated this is the case. I used YEC and OEC websites. The YEC websites make the claim quite often. Not one OEC website contradicted those claims. Each time, with the OEC sites, they would use YOM, never was it used with a number. Many examples were given as to how YOM was used, but never was it used in conjuction with evening and morning or a number. Its obvious you know more about translations than I do. You also seem to have many more resources. If it exists such scripture and you have these outlets to find more information than I have stated, please provide the evidence to contradict me.I have made my claim quite a few times, yet not once have you actually provided anything to counter my claims.Find me an instance where YOM is used with morning and evening to refer to a long period of time.Find me an instance where YOM is used with a number to refer to a long period of time.Thanks.

it doesnt mean 'day' as in the english word day.day is just the word the translators used.In vs Gen 1:2 'Yom' means 'light'In other verses 'Yom' means the length of a persons lifein others it means 'the entire period of Gods creative works'

hERICtic writes:
I know YOM is Hebrew. It means "day". I'm not sure what you are trying to imply here. Perhaps I may have missed it, but I have yet to see a definition of YOM to mean light. It can mean the period of day in which there is light. YOM from my undersanding means "day", but "day' can be broken down into many definitions, such as long periods of time, but all including a time, which includes days.Seasons, age, year, etc. Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

you are not looking very hard then lolGen 1:2 "...and the light he called Yom"If you know that Yom can mean many things, why do you insist that in genesis it means only a 24 hour day as we know it when bviously the definition of Yom can mean many things. ???

quote:

---

If you know that Yom can mean many things, why do you insist that in genesis it means only a 24 hour day as we know it when bviously the definition of Yom can mean many things. ???

---

Seriously?All the evidence grammatical and otherwise on discerning the meaning of a word (that can have several meanings) by how it is used within the sentence and all you can say is that yom has several meanings. Message 27, Message 34, Message 43, Message 61, Message 80, Message 83, Message 86, Message 88, and Message 97Whether the word is used literally or figuratively depends on how it is used in the sentence.Show me that the structure of the sentence demands a figurative reading.You've deemed a figurative meaning for yom based on a doctrine or your own ideology, not on the usage within the sentence.Edited by purpledawn, : Added Msg Links

---

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

Longer.

quote:

---

5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

---

yom does not mean "light". It means "the part of the day that is light".Please, be absurd with your deductions all you want, but don't ignore context when it suits you, and cry "context!" when it doesn't.Yom is strictly a time-based word - the "light" part of the day, the whole 24 hour day, sure - and I'll give it that yom seems identical to our "days" usage as in "the days of" or "the day of", although you're lacking proof from the bible itself that you're correct in your application of any other meaning that the standard one, and it personally seems more complicated than needed to claim that Genesis must be "literal" rather than figurative, which doesn't change the meaning at all, it just makes it...more complicated than necessary.

Hi Doc,Thanks for reading my post seems you are the only one that did. Thanks for the correction. I am getting too old to try to do anything in a hurry.God Bless,

---

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."