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Author Topic:   Quality Control the Gold Standard
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 32 of 238 (284968)
02-08-2006 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Evopeach
02-08-2006 11:06 AM


Re: Opps Now He'll be a Moron
Evopeach
... living organisms are very complicated aggregations of elementary parts, and by any reasonable theory of probability or thermodynamics highly improbable.
And yet here they are. Living organisms obeying the laws of thermodynamics and probability. There is nothing in the laws of probability or thermodynamics that preclude the existence of living organisms. As you said yourself they are "aggregations of elementary parts" and they happen to follow the laws of probabilty and thermodynamics. Living organisms are only complicated because they embody a vast array of these elementary particles under many different conditions. Since the elementary particles obey the laws it is unremarkable that living organisms should also.

But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Evopeach, posted 02-08-2006 11:06 AM Evopeach has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Evopeach, posted 02-08-2006 1:16 PM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 45 of 238 (285002)
02-08-2006 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Evopeach
02-08-2006 1:16 PM


Re: Opps Now He'll be a Moron
Evopeach
Of course his assumption of prepetuity after the fact is unconvincing because it assumes the first replicator could perform at the required accuracy.
Let's see. I disagree with Von Neumann on the statement he makes and you respond curtly with his curriculum vitae. However you then do the same thing yourself and no problem right?
Since you are fond of quotes and such let take a contemporary of von Neumanns shall we?
``...it doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are - if it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.''
Richard P. Feynman
Do you happen to know Feynman's C.V.?
Does you have experimental verification peer reviewed and replicable?

But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Evopeach, posted 02-08-2006 1:16 PM Evopeach has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 189 of 238 (287192)
02-16-2006 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Evopeach
02-15-2006 5:36 PM


Re: Going back off topic
Evopeach
Does it mean he did not participate on the team at Berkley whose principal won a Nobel Prize for their work on the Tobacco Mosaic Virus
In all likelihood yes. Observe.
Wikipedia
Gish, a twin, was born in White City, Kansas, the youngest of nine children. He received a BS degree from UCLA in 1949 and a Ph.D. in biochemistry from the University of California, Berkeley in 1953. He is the author of several books and articles espousing the tenets of creationism.
Gish was an Assistant Research Associate at Berkeley, and an Assistant Professor at Cornell University Medical College, before joining the Upjohn Company as a Research Associate in 1960
The Nobel prize in Chemistry concerning the Tobacco Mosaic Virus was awarded in 1946.John Howard Northrop, Wendell Meredith Stanley USA, USA "for their preparation of enzymes and virus proteins in a pure form"
Wikipedia
Wendell Meredith Stanley (August 16, 1904 - June 15, 1971) was an American biochemist, virologist and Nobel prize laureate.
He was born in Ridgeville, Indiana, and earned a BS in Chemistry at Earlham College. He then studied at the University of Illinois, gaining a MS in science in 1927 followed by a PhD in chemistry two years later.
As a member of National Research Council he moved temporarily for academic work in Munich before he returned to the States in 1931. On return he was approved as an assistant at Rockefeller Institute, the post he held until 1948. He later became Professor of Biochemistry at University of California, Berkeley, and in 1958 Chairman of the Biochemistry Department.
Stanley's work contributed to knowledge on lepracidal compounds, diphenyl stereochemistry and the chemistry of the sterols. His researches on the virus causing the mosaic disease in tobacco plants led to the isolation of a nucleoprotein which displayed tobacco mosaic virus activity.
Wikipedia
wikipedia
John Howard Northrop (July 5, 1891 - May 27, 1987) was an American biochemist who won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1946 (with James Batcheller Sumner and Wendell Meredith Stanley) for purifying and crystallizing certain enzymes.
Northrop was born in Yonkers, New York and educated at Columbia University, where he earned his PhD in chemistry in 1915. During World War I, he conducted research for the U.S. Army Chemical Warfare Service on the production of acetone and ethanol through fermentation. This work led to studying enzymes.
In 1929 he isolated and crystallized the gastric enzyme pepsin and determined that it was a protein and in 1938 he isolated and crystallized the first bacteriophage (a small virus that attacks bacteria), and determined that it was a nucleoprotein. Northrop also isolated and crystallized pepsinogen (the precursor to pepsin), trypsin, chymotrypsin, and carboxypeptidase.
His 1939 book Crystalline Enzymes was an important text. Northrop was employed by the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research in New York City from 1916 to 1961, at which time he retired. Northrop died in Wickenberg, Arizona.
Perhaps you could connect the dots and provide info on how much he contributed if at all. Perhaps he ran for coffee and donuts.
Perhaps you can conduct yourself with some grace or you could continue to verify to others that you are free from the ravages of intelligence eh?

But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time. R.P. Feynman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Evopeach, posted 02-15-2006 5:36 PM Evopeach has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Wounded King, posted 02-16-2006 5:34 AM sidelined has replied
 Message 195 by Evopeach, posted 02-16-2006 9:34 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 193 of 238 (287241)
02-16-2006 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Wounded King
02-16-2006 5:34 AM


Re: A critique of Sidelined's critique of Evopeach's claims
Wounded King
No one is saying that Gish participated in the work that won the Nobel prize, all they are saying is that he worked with one of those that did. The 'their' in your quote from Evopeach is in reference to the principal's work not the team's.
Certainly this is the case. My point, however, was that the implication that he participated with a member of the team at berkley
who had,previous to their connection. won a Nobel prize makes his participation on the team one of association with people on the cutting edge of biochemistry.This is no indication of how much he did contribute and this is what I was trying to arrive at.
As for the paper which he worked with Stanley on.
Studies on the amino acid sequence of tobacco mosaic virus (TMV) protein. I. Fractionation of products of tryptic hydrolysis by countercurrent distribution.
Arch Biochem Biophys. 1958 Dec;78(2):433-50. No abstract available.
PMID: 13618026 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
Now what did each contribute since there were three in all on this team? How important a paper was this and how much of the work and insight was attributable to Stanley himself?
You will also note here in the Bio of Stanley from wikipedia
Stanley's work contributed to knowledge on lepracidal compounds, diphenyl stereochemistry and the chemistry of the sterols. His researches on the virus causing the mosaic disease in tobacco plants led to the isolation of a nucleoprotein which displayed tobacco mosaic virus activity.
And that of Northrop also from wikipedia
In 1929 he isolated and crystallized the gastric enzyme pepsin and determined that it was a protein and in 1938 he isolated and crystallized the first bacteriophage (a small virus that attacks bacteria), and determined that it was a nucleoprotein. Northrop also isolated and crystallized pepsinogen (the precursor to pepsin), trypsin, chymotrypsin, and carboxypeptidase
Now as for Gish we have this
Gish was an Assistant Research Associate at Berkeley, and an Assistant Professor at Cornell University Medical College, before joining the Upjohn Company as a Research Associate in 1960
No reference to any work that he did. Hence my poke in fun as to his contribution.
This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2006-02-17 06:51 AM

But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time. R.P. Feynman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Wounded King, posted 02-16-2006 5:34 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Wounded King, posted 02-16-2006 9:31 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 197 of 238 (287262)
02-16-2006 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Evopeach
02-16-2006 9:34 AM


Re: Going back off topic
Evopeach
Duane Gish has scientific credentials. As a biochemist, he has synthesized peptides, compounds intermediate between amino acids and proteins. He has been co-author of a number of publications in peptide chemistry.1
I never said he did not. I was simply putting your misdirection of importance by association at rest for what it actually was.
If you had any class you would issue a public apology to Dr. Gish for your ignorant and uninformed ad hominem attack.
I owe Gish no apology since the deceptive methods shown here are yours, not his. I will not apologize for your actions and I will certainly not apologize to you good sir.

But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time. R.P. Feynman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Evopeach, posted 02-16-2006 9:34 AM Evopeach has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Evopeach, posted 02-16-2006 9:55 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 199 of 238 (287267)
02-16-2006 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Evopeach
02-16-2006 9:55 AM


Re: Going back off topic
Evopeach
You called him a hack and a fraud
LOL
You have not been paying attention have you?
Perhaps little details surpass your judgement on these things and you carry this on into your own work?
Seriously, son, please make sure you know whom you are talking to before inserting your foot in your mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Evopeach, posted 02-16-2006 9:55 AM Evopeach has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Evopeach, posted 02-16-2006 10:22 AM sidelined has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 203 of 238 (287286)
02-16-2006 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by Percy
02-16-2006 10:28 AM


Re: Going back off topic
Percy
Ahhh. you gave the answer away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Percy, posted 02-16-2006 10:28 AM Percy has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 205 of 238 (287336)
02-16-2006 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Evopeach
02-16-2006 12:54 PM


Re: Going back off topic
Evopeach
The issue I had concerned your linking with the nobel prize in chemistry to the name of Duane Gish as though this were an important point. It is not and this is really the crux of the matter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Evopeach, posted 02-16-2006 12:54 PM Evopeach has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Evopeach, posted 02-16-2006 1:42 PM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 210 of 238 (287499)
02-17-2006 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by Evopeach
02-16-2006 1:42 PM


Re: Going back off topic
Evopeach
I see a few people picked up on your hypocrisy and you're sqirming
Squirming? In your dreams.
This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2006-02-17 07:46 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Evopeach, posted 02-16-2006 1:42 PM Evopeach has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 211 of 238 (287561)
02-17-2006 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Wounded King
02-16-2006 9:31 AM


Re: A critique of Sidelined's critique of Evopeach's claims
Wounded King
P.S. I don't think the Nobel they won was for Peace.
Thanks for pointing that out WK
I don't know why that one slipped in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Wounded King, posted 02-16-2006 9:31 AM Wounded King has not replied

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