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Author | Topic: Evidence for Intelligent Design-is there any? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
XX Junior Member (Idle past 5706 days) Posts: 12 Joined: |
The option I have been considering lately is..to define design as organization as opposed to chaos.
The thought that has occurred to me lately, in chaos theory and patterns in random is that..Even Though my dog is thoroughly familiar with "cars" the dog will never understand the design or mechanisms of "cars." The mathematics of "winning the lottery" is an example of knowing intuitively that there is a design but not being able to describe in mathematical terms or develop a scientifically useful model for that "pattern in random" other than the very clumsy "statistical probability." Intelligent Design, for me, is the idea that the universe is coherent, orderly and that by means of our intelligence we can understand the mechanisms...That would signify that man is an echo of the process (creator) of the universe. However, if we are so dissimiliar from the source or the source is not coherent (random or chaotic) then Darwin and evolution are not "true" either (being an organized system of belief) because the universe would not be in a coherent or decipherable order and/or we would not be able to understand it, ultimately, anymore than my dog, not being an echo of the process that created cars, can understand cars. Intelligent Design, to me, means that the universe is coherent, orderly and man can understand its mechanisms. (LOL..I hope this is coherent. It is a thought that I have not quite verbalized yet but I think I have expressed it as well as I can.) Edited by XX, : No reason given.
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XX Junior Member (Idle past 5706 days) Posts: 12 Joined: |
Coyote:
Thank you for replying. I wanted to add that I do not believe in an "anthropomorphic God" because God would be significantly different than man. Chaos and Random exists and..if linear time is ...hmmm..how shall I say..not relevent in the model then the "logic' of the entire patterns or some patterns or any specific pattern may not be coherent or accessible to man's understanding..as illustrated by a mathematical modeling of the lottery numbers. BTW..I came here to see if the DNA studies for Cro Magnon were online or if anyone knew where to obtain them and I am getting side tracked by my own..sidetracks..Cro Magnon DNA anyone? Thank You
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XX Junior Member (Idle past 5706 days) Posts: 12 Joined: |
Richard ..Good Points
But I am not certain of the idea that Design and Designer is or must be an "anthropomorphic design/designer" or "in the image of man." I will point to Dawkins..and evolution in general to show how Man organizes "systems" into the same/similiar "logical structures of his own design" But the System may not be operating on That Logic or by that Structural Design..and most of the System may not be intellectually accessible to Man OK..Comparative Religion: 1) Dawkins has an Image of God that he Doesn't believe In (anthropormorphic) 2) Evolution has a Creation Myth featuring an anthromorphic cartoon Ape Neanderthal. (system) Many "natural" Systems are not "linear time" or chronological time Man is a superstitious animal who likes to believe that one thing predicts another. That is Logical to Man. More time is spent arguing about time in Evolution than any other topic. I would agree with the Young Earth folks..If time is relevent to the argument then Evolution is History ..Not Science. So no matter how "scientific" the claims, the structure and logic of the "belief" system contain the same elements. IF it is a choice between Neanderthal as evolutionary ancestor and the Ark..I think there is now more evidence for the Ark.. Evolution theory has the same problem of why "They" are not doing it now. Say that Man "appeared" 200,000ya (just a round figure) Man started to doing art 100,000ya. Evolutionist are insisting that man "evolved" during that 100,000 year period...but Cro Mangon had not evolved in the last...100,000 years...even though there is "archeological evidence that Man made a great leap forward about a 150ya..Man advanced Technological but Man himself did not evolve. I see your question as two separate issues..One..the logic and structure (design) of the universe or lack thereof.. Two, the nature of God..or Designer or Chaos/Random..but in either case, the ultimate nature of God or Chaos may be... by its very nature...always and only be known "through the glass darkly." JMHO... Edited by XX, : No reason given. Edited by XX, : No reason given.
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XX Junior Member (Idle past 5706 days) Posts: 12 Joined: |
Coyote..
I am stating my thoughts about Intelligent Design. There is a dichotomy or there wouldn't be a controversy between the Classic Model and Intelligent Design..The thread seems to be about Classic Evolution Or Intelligent Design If the information is incorrect about Neanderthal, then the information has changed in the last 2 or 3 years...and many scientist still claim that we did evolve from ancestor Neanderthal either in whole or part.. As for evidence of the Ark, that would be off topic..and I stated If the choice is Either/Or
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XX Junior Member (Idle past 5706 days) Posts: 12 Joined: |
OK
1) Chaos/Random - If you play the lottery 100 million years ago or 100 million years in the future..You cannot predict the numbers but you can give statistical odds of the chance of any number. That system is ultimately not accesible to rational anaylysis or prediction. 2)Logical or Rational System..Is in a Logical Order, Has Internal Coherence ...is Intelligable to Man's Intelligence There are examples of both Systems in nature but..the primary argument or dichotomy is whether the System is either truly Random or whether the some Systems are so complex or intricate that they are unintelligable now but ultimately decipherable as Mathematical Models. What I have read of Intelligent Design ar arguments for the second premise.That is the argument I have heard for Intelligent Design. I think most people who are leaning toward ID do not have God in A Box..or an Image of the Designer..It is more the logic and structure of the Universe and the ultimate nature of reality. I am an Equal Opportunity Heretic..Many Christians have an anthropormorphic image of God made in their own image..I would see God as a Living Being or Process ..something to be examined, an interesting proposition..the nature of GOd.. rather than something cast in stone..but that is off topicBTW I read an article that the bones found at Ngong Java have been redated to 27,000 years. I know that the web is not a good source of "true" articles but if it is true ..maybe some more DNA Tests on that species. Edited by XX, : TYPOS
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XX Junior Member (Idle past 5706 days) Posts: 12 Joined: |
WAIT
Coyote.."There is no evidence of evolution from Neanderthals but there is or maybe evidence of interbreeding" Exactly what is Evolution without selective or interbreeding? I didn't know any biological organism could evolve without some form of reproduction..and that is "*species" in higher mammals..Neanderthal is not species, Man.. (LOL..a heretics comment..does evolution now include the virgin birth as a mechanism for evolution, OK...I will omit the asides if you are truly offended by my heretical sense of humor)
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XX Junior Member (Idle past 5706 days) Posts: 12 Joined: |
Straggler..
"an exact example so complex or intricate" that it's existence is impossible by any natural means" A mathematical model accurately predicting the next sequential event in random and chaotic systems
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