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Author Topic:   ID as Religion
Rei
Member (Idle past 7043 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 48 of 139 (141411)
09-10-2004 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by ID man
09-10-2004 12:25 PM


ID Man:
Name a single case in which a respected evolutionist has presented a possible development route of the prokaryotic flagellum in which each intermediary stage isn't advantageous as well. In fact, many in-betweens between no flagellum and a fully functional flagellum *already exist*.
All bacteria have at the very least passive transport pores. Most (if not all) have active transport pores, in which a protein or multiple proteins simply line the pore and, using ATP and a target molecule, fold to push out a particular molecule. These aren't particularly complex, and can easily be randomly created from hundreds of other cellular proteins. Such proteins, should they mutate so that they protrude from outside the pore, can be used to help bond the bacteria in place, either to other cells or to a natural substrate. Some of these have become long and filamentous, which allows the bacteria to remain further away from its substrate or to allow more bacteria to cluster around a particular substrate. An active protein that, through random mutation, bonds to both the filament and the cell wall can - and will - shake the filament whenever it is activated, causing the bacteria to move around (so, if say, the protein came from a protein that was activated in response to the cell being under attack, it would make the bacteria swing around and evade its predator). Eventually, the filament being bound toa substrate no longer becomes a necessity; the bacteria wouldn't be effective at swimming, but would be able to move itself erratically when it was under attack. Beyond that, incremental protein changes make swimming more effective by adding a rotational deformation. All of the in-between stages exist.
In short, your claim:
"Natural selection selects functionally advantageous systems. Yet motor function ensues only after all parts have independently self-assembled."
... is completely wrong, because intermediary stages already exist, to advantage. I reminds me of when I was debating with someone saying that any intermediary stages between a land mammal and a sea mammal would never work because they would be disadvantageous, and I was forced to mention something to the effect of, "Beaver? Otter? Seal? Any of these ring a bell?". When real-cases of in-betweens already exist, the argument that intermediates would be disadvantageous falls apart. Intermediates of the flagellum already exist. Consequently, the case against it falls apart.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by ID man, posted 09-10-2004 12:25 PM ID man has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by ID man, posted 09-11-2004 10:00 AM Rei has not replied

  
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