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Author Topic:   Circular reasoning
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3488 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 81 of 142 (570849)
07-29-2010 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Pauline
07-28-2010 10:51 PM


Now the Evidence
I've never understood the circular reasoning thing and was interested in gaining some understanding in this thread. In Message 1 you stated that God self confesses to be the ultimate authority. To me that means that God claims to be the ultimate authority. But you say that Crashfrog claiming to be the ultimate authority doesn't make him the ultimate authority.
I've been waiting for you to show me the difference.
Where does God claim to be the ultimate authority?
If others are claiming he is the ultimate authority, then that isn't God making the claim.
You stated in Message 8 you stated:
Pauline writes:
If we believe X to be the ultimate authority, it CANNOT be on the basis of Y saying that X is the ultimate authority. I think it is obvious why not. I will say it anyway. If Y is the supposed evidence for X being the ultimate authority, then X no longer is a candidate for ultimate authority, Y takes its place.
In Message 35, you don't accept Crashfrog's claim of being an ultimate authority. You ask for proof, but when it comes to God; you don't ask for proof.
Pauline writes:
I believe that God is always right and perfect, just as He says in His Word. My faith in god's character is my basis for counting God as the ultimate authority.
1. Where does God say he is always right and perfect?
2. If your faith is your basis for counting God as the ultimate authority, then God is no longer the ultimate authority by your own standards.
Remember, this is a science forum and evidence is necessary to back up your argument.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Pauline, posted 07-28-2010 10:51 PM Pauline has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3488 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


(3)
Message 119 of 142 (571287)
07-31-2010 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Pauline
07-30-2010 7:49 PM


Self-Authentication - Evidence
quote:
The ultimate authority's living out his claims i.e providing proof i.e showing evidence is an INTERNAL source of evidence. It is highly necessary and valuble and is the basis for his self-authentication. He cannot claim anything without demonstrating his rights and reasons to claim it by actually, really living out his claims.
As an onlooker, I'm very disappointed. I have been waiting for you to show me the difference between what you were originally claiming and what crashfrog is claiming. I don't see a difference.
You expect real time evidence from crashfrog, and claim God is providing real time evidence. What you haven't shown is the real time evidence that you feel God is providing. All you offer for evidence is a book where the newest additions are over 1500 years old. The evidence may have been real time for the people back then, but what is available today?
To remain the ultimate authority throughout time, real time evidence would need to be available for authentication in every generation.
Where in the Bible does God actually claim to be the ultimate authority over everything?
Give a few examples from the Bible of the evidence that backs up that claim.
Provide current evidence that you feel still backs up that original claim today.
quote:
Let's have a vote. Who get's this round?
They countered your argument with their own and you whined about their argument instead of addressing it. You went and hid behind belief instead of really discussing circular reasoning.
If this was ping pong, your opposition would get a point because you didn't return the ball to the playing area.
quote:
Remember: BOTH of us agree that evidence (living out/demonstrating claims) is absolutely necessary. We disagree on whether the evidence is external or internal.
That wasn't your original argument. IMO, you're just changing the evidence requirements to gut feelings to claim faith/belief as your evidence, which isn't something that anyone else can check. IOW, God is the ultimate authority for you personally because you believe he is the ultimate authority supposedly because of what you've read in the Bible.
Please give examples of external and internal evidence as it pertains to authenticating an ultimate authority.
What internal evidence has God provided?

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Pauline, posted 07-30-2010 7:49 PM Pauline has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Rrhain, posted 08-02-2010 4:09 AM purpledawn has seen this message but not replied

  
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