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Author Topic:   Evolution: Natural selection vs. Godly guidance
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 58 of 154 (588892)
10-28-2010 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Minnemooseus
10-28-2010 12:49 AM


Re: God the selective breeder
Hi Moose,
He believes God had some contribution to the selection process, but makes no claim of being able to produce evidence in support of that belief.
...
If God were to have been guiding evolution, would God have chosen or otherwise permitted the evolutionary history that we know as reality.
...
God influencing the origin and development of the species not unlike how humans have influenced the origin and development of the dog.
It may be a little more complex than that:
quote:
Message 1: How can sceintists accept a belief in natural selection as superior to my belief in the supernatural's continuous creation as the cause of evolution.
Message 48: I argue that if God by providence has created the mechanisms for the evolution of life science rejects this because it cannot be proven by natural means.
Continuous creation would be the whole process, not just the selection, but the control of the environment that leads to the selection.
omnipotent
omniscient
Able and knowing.
quote:
Message 48: So if for example information is contained in the DNA, science assumes it is by natural causes, while I state it is by supernatural causes. Can you prove me wrong and you right? If so how.
So Scientists assume that the changes in species are natural and try to prove them by saying here we see the changes, they are natural, so design is wrong. But even if the changes occur, which I agree they do, science cannot prove they are by natural means or supenatural means. Science assumes all things are by natural means, w/o proof, a very dangerous assumption.
Controlling the nature of "natural means" would be a supernatural means that would not be able to be detected.
An interesting concept.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Minnemooseus, posted 10-28-2010 12:49 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Coyote, posted 10-28-2010 10:22 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 60 by subbie, posted 10-28-2010 10:23 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 71 by Straggler, posted 10-29-2010 10:22 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 148 of 154 (590096)
11-05-2010 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Coyote
10-28-2010 10:22 PM


Re: God the selective breeder
Hi Coyote (et al, asking essentially the same questions)
If this supernatural stuff can't be detected, why are we not safe in just ignoring it as if it didn't exist?
For the same reason that not being able to falsify it means shadow71 would be safe in just ignoring claims that his assertion is false, as if they didn't exist. Remember that his question was:
quote:
How can sceintists accept a belief in natural selection as superior to my belief in the supernatural's continuous creation as the cause of evolution.
All you are doing is assuming that your position is true, same as shadow71.
The logical rational position is that we don't know. Note that in either case you end up with the same results: evolutionary adaption to ecology.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Coyote, posted 10-28-2010 10:22 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Coyote, posted 11-05-2010 9:48 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 150 of 154 (590134)
11-06-2010 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Coyote
11-05-2010 9:48 PM


Re: Logical rational position--again...
Hi Coyote,
Given the propositions that 1) the supernatural exists, and 2) the supernatural does not exist, the evidence is not equal in both cases. The vast preponderance of the evidence suggests that the supernatural does not exist. The evidence supporting the existence of the supernatural is pretty much squat.
In your opinion.
This is not the thread to discuss it, but I note that every time an atheist claim that there is a preponderance of evidence that supernatural entities do not exist is challenged, that they are unable to come up with any. Mostly what is brought up is that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence and other logical fallacies. See Pseudoskepticism and logic for an example.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Coyote, posted 11-05-2010 9:48 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Coyote, posted 11-06-2010 10:44 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
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