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Author Topic:   Something BIG is coming! (AIG trying to build full sized ark)
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 241 of 259 (632904)
09-11-2011 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by DubyaDeeEm
09-10-2011 6:18 PM


Re: Not seeing is believing
DubyaDeeEm writes:

However I believe Chuck's point is that you can't use the fact that some think men in Noah's day didn't have the technological know-how to build the boat he built with the dimensions and requirements he had to adhere to to rule out its existence, since the pyramids show the use, thousands of years ago, of technology and geological understanding which is likely beyond that of modern man.

Yes Dubya, that was exactly my point. Thank you for noticing it. Apperantly no one else did.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by DubyaDeeEm, posted 09-10-2011 6:18 PM DubyaDeeEm has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-11-2011 4:44 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15792
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(4)
Message 242 of 259 (632905)
09-11-2011 4:44 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by Chuck77
09-11-2011 4:41 AM


Re: Not seeing is believing
Yes Dubya, that was exactly my point. Thank you for noticing it. Apperantly no one else did.

We noticed what the point was, but we also noticed that it was bollocks, since the pyramids do not in fact "show the use, thousands of years ago, of technology and geological understanding which is likely beyond that of modern man".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Chuck77, posted 09-11-2011 4:41 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15792
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 243 of 259 (632911)
09-11-2011 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by DubyaDeeEm
09-10-2011 6:18 PM


Re: Not seeing is believing
However I believe Chuck's point is that you can't use the fact that some think men in Noah's day didn't have the technological know-how to build the boat he built with the dimensions and requirements he had to adhere to to rule out its existence, since the pyramids show the use, thousands of years ago, of technology and geological understanding which is likely beyond that of modern man.

Yeah, all we can do is stuff like this:

Whereas the mighty Egyptians could stack rocks on top of one another to almost a fifth of that height.

There are other cases of colossally huge stones perfectly fitted together centuries ago which still exist and surpass the technical know-how of modern man (in South America).

Yeah, our lasers can only cut to a precision of 10 micrometers, whereas at Machu Pichu their lasers ... oh, wait, they didn't have any lasers. But they were still able to construct buildings over two stories high!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by DubyaDeeEm, posted 09-10-2011 6:18 PM DubyaDeeEm has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5762
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 244 of 259 (632921)
09-11-2011 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by DubyaDeeEm
09-10-2011 6:18 PM


Re: Not seeing is believing
There are other cases of colossally huge stones perfectly fitted together centuries ago which still exist and surpass the technical know-how of modern man (in South America).

Maybe you would want to show this. That way we can determine on out own if your are flinging BS or not. I for one do not believe such a thing exists, but if you could provide the evidence maybe I can be convinced.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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Wollysaurus
Member (Idle past 1875 days)
Posts: 52
From: US
Joined: 08-25-2011


(2)
Message 245 of 259 (632945)
09-11-2011 12:11 PM


A sad state of thought
If anything, these replies show that biology education is not the only victim of pseudoscience and snake oil salesmen. The shadows of Eric von Daniken, Graham Hancock, Velikovsky and others hang over the teaching of History and related disciplines.

However I believe Chuck's point is that you can't use the fact that some think men in Noah's day didn't have the technological know-how to build the boat he built with the dimensions and requirements he had to adhere to to rule out its existence, since the pyramids show the use, thousands of years ago, of technology and geological understanding which is likely beyond that of modern man.

There are other cases of colossally huge stones perfectly fitted together centuries ago which still exist and surpass the technical know-how of modern man (in South America).

Asking for evidence of these claims will lead you to a lot of websites with very little depth and very few verifiable claims -- and a lot of outright fiction.

This is the sort of thing I would expect to see parroted on that abysmal History Channel show ancient aliens... Oh wait, they do say that sort of thing, all the time. Only instead of making this (baseless) claim to sure up a fundamentalist Christian worldview, they do it to attempt to prove that aliens have been meddling in our affairs since the dawn of the species. Interestingly, they attempt to make themselves sound more academic by referring to their little cabal as "ancient astronaut theorists". Sorry for the minor drift, but it's not just Creationism that threatens education and the intellectual well being of the population at large, but pseudoscience in general.

Did mankind have exceptionally well developed stone masonry and some surprising (only surprising if you underestimate your ancestors) examples of monolithic construction? Yes, absolutely! It's amazing what you can do with well developed guilds of craftsmen, battalions of forced labor, and in some cases generations to complete your construction project.

Have you ever been to the Hoover Dam? Look at that and tell me we cannot exceed (dramatically) the construction techniques of our ancestors. Not only in terms of tight tolerances but materiel and, of course, our increased understanding of the physical sciences has allowed us to reach skyward in a way they could never imagine, as demonstrated in Dr Adequate's post above. Find me an example of a modern reinforced foundation in the ancient world using steel and alloys to bring a man made structure more than three hundred meters in the air, designed to flex with the wind or the movement of the earth below, and you could prove they might *match* our abilities. Instead, you are more likely to find heavy, hand cut stone blocks, carefully shaped by hand to fit together marvelously, and brought into place by ramps, sledges, ropes and a lot of unhappy slaves (not tractor beams as the History Channel might assert).

And in terms of this discussion, the assertion that the fact that folks could build large stone structures somehow relates to their maritime capabilities is baffling to me. If you wanted to show the potential for shipbuilding, at least point to some ancient ships, for crying out loud.

Like this:

The Nemi ships, a rather indulgent project from Caligula's time. The Italians recovered them from the bottom of lake Nemi (yes, they were basically just huge lake locked pleasure barges) and most of what was recovered was tragically lost during the Second World War. These marvels measured about 70 meters long and were complete with plumbing. Now, these ships are from, what, twenty five or so centuries before the supposed Ark and the reduction of the human population to a single family? So maybe (if we go backwards using creationist logic) if they had the ability to build ships like this in the first century CE, they must have had much more advanced ship building techniques more than two thousand years earlier! Hell, Noah's Ark was probably a giant nuclear powered submersible. You see what I did there? I made a completely unfounded conclusion based on virtually thin air. Hmmm...

Of course, for your purposes, you might do better to research references to the giant Obelisk transports the Egyptians used to ferry, well, obelisks. Those older barges might be more relevant to the Ark.

The thing about history, or anything really, is that you actually have to do research. Read a whole bunch of monographs arguing an assortment of competing theses and check their sources. Go to what primary source material you can. Develop an understand of an issue based on more than pop history and low budget TV shows interviewing washed up authors of half-baked, conspiracy laden books. If someone makes an extraordinary claim, demand extraordinary evidence. Vague correlations and arguments from gaps in our understanding of events are not evidence.

Sorry, this little tidbit about ancient construction techniques sort of ticked me off. I'm done now.

Edited by Wollysaurus, : words escape me.


  
jar
Member
Posts: 28688
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 246 of 259 (632947)
09-11-2011 12:27 PM


The new amusement park will make lots of money
While the new amusement park may not be as culturally significant as Lego Land or offer as much valuable information as Knott's Berry Farm, it should be every bit as great a profit center as the earlier Creation Museum amusement park.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 1529 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


(2)
Message 247 of 259 (632950)
09-11-2011 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Chuck77
09-06-2011 8:26 PM


Re: Just a comparison
Im not trying to debate the Great pyramid here at all. Im simply saying it's so great an accomplishment that no one would believe they built it back when they did if it wasn't still there and only documented in few texts.

About the age of the pyramids...

quote:
Old Kingdom
(Dynasties IV-VIII)
2575-2150 B.C.
Age of pyramids reaches zenith at Giza; cult of the sun god Re centered at Heliopolis. Cultural flowering; trade with Mediterranean region and brief occupation of Lower Nubia.

From Nat Geo

quote:
Egyptologists believe that the pyramid was built as a tomb for fourth dynasty Egyptian Pharaoh Khufu (Cheops in Greek) over an approximately 20 year period concluding around 2560 BC.

From Wiki

About the age of the flood...

quote:
17 May 2344 BC
In the 600th year of Noah's life, in the 2nd month, the 17th day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. On the very same day Noah, Noah's sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth, Noah's wife and his sons three wives with them, entered the ark with two of every animal and bird. God shut the door of the ark, and the Flood began. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed 15 cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth and every man.... Only Noah and those with him in the ark remained alive. [Gen 7:11-23]

From here

Um....I guess the flood didn't wash the pyramids away...and didn't leave any signs that they were ever underwater, no water damage to artifacts? How strange.

Just a thought since the pyramids were brought up in an ark thread.


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Chuck77, posted 09-06-2011 8:26 PM Chuck77 has not yet responded

    
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1695 days)
Posts: 2962
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 248 of 259 (632951)
09-11-2011 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Chuck77
09-06-2011 8:26 PM


Re: Just a comparison
Im not trying to debate the Great pyramid here at all. Im simply saying it's so great an accomplishment that no one would believe they built it back when they did if it wasn't still there and only documented in few texts.

There's nothing particularly fantastic about the pyramids.

It's a pile or rocks.

No need for aliens. No need for magic. No need for Jesus. Anyone can pile rocks.

Yes, it's a lot of rocks. Yes, it took a lot of people. Yes, they did an excellent job and got it done relatively quickly.

It's still just dragging rocks and stacking them.

If the Great Pyramid had be build so that it stands on its tip, then THAT would be something that people could marvel at!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Chuck77, posted 09-06-2011 8:26 PM Chuck77 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by fearandloathing, posted 09-11-2011 1:32 PM Nuggin has responded

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 1529 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


(1)
Message 249 of 259 (632955)
09-11-2011 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Nuggin
09-11-2011 1:07 PM


Re: Just a comparison
I find the stonework of the Inca much more fascinating even though it is not as old. The Inca didn't have the technology that the Egyptians did though, and look at what they managed with simple tools.


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Nuggin, posted 09-11-2011 1:07 PM Nuggin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Nuggin, posted 09-11-2011 4:24 PM fearandloathing has acknowledged this reply

    
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1695 days)
Posts: 2962
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 250 of 259 (632964)
09-11-2011 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by fearandloathing
09-11-2011 1:32 PM


.Re: Just a comparison
I find the stonework of the Inca much more fascinating even though it is not as old. The Inca didn't have the technology that the Egyptians did though, and look at what they managed with simple tools.

Agreed, they were talented. But, unlike "The History Channel" I don't think it means that aliens were involved.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by fearandloathing, posted 09-11-2011 1:32 PM fearandloathing has acknowledged this reply

    
xtseo 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1950 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 09-24-2011


Message 251 of 259 (634938)
09-24-2011 11:55 PM


good post spamful to me
One day my friend tell me that he wanted to. I told him that is easy to buy now online. So the is. Now the role he play is rather powerful. In the game, Wow stuff is every player wants to get. May you could receive your higher.

Edited by xtseo, : just to forget include the signature

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Reset signature to spam treated version and tweak subtitle.


    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5762
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 252 of 259 (645129)
12-23-2011 2:01 PM


Ark a bust?
AiG email to Tourism Cabinet reveals delay in Ark Park groundbreaking, slow fundraising

Gee I thought it was supposed to be $150 million dollar project. They only have $4 million? This is pretty laughable. They don't even own all the property yet.

quote:
Their groundbreaking was pushed back from spring, to summer, to fall, and the most recent media report was to next spring. Meanwhile, their fundraising goal of $24.5 million appears to have ground to a halt at just over $4 million, where it has been for quite a while. They had reached the $3 million mark all the way back in May.

LEO Weekly contacted our good friend at Answers in Genesis, Senior Vice President Mike Zovath, for a status update on groundbreaking and fundraising for Ark Encounter, but he sadly did not return our calls.


Not returning calls from reporters? Not a good sign.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15792
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 253 of 259 (645143)
12-23-2011 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Theodoric
12-23-2011 2:01 PM


Re: Ark a bust?
Really, how much does it cost to hire a family of eight people and buy some Bronze-Age tools? Has the price of bronze shot way up lately?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Theodoric, posted 12-23-2011 2:01 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15792
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 254 of 259 (667336)
07-06-2012 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Minnemooseus
12-02-2010 8:01 PM


Re: Not going to happen, and it won't work if they actually do try
As I see it, the main questions are:

1) Are they going to be able to raise the money? I doubt it.

You are a prophet.

2) Isn't there a better Christian thing to spend the money on? I think so.

Well, that too. Looking at their website, I see that a donation of $100 will enable you to sponsor ... a peg.

For $1000 you can sponsor an entire plank. Yes, of wood and not of platinum encrusted with garnets and inlaid with unicorn ivory. No, you just pay them $1000 to be credited with the donation of a plank of wood.

Actually giving them a plank is apparently not an alternative. They want your money, which apparently they convert into single bills, put through a pulping machine, and turn into chipboard by a secret Biblical process, nah, just kidding, they keep it.

For $5000 you can sponsor a beam. You get a certificate and everything, so that you can prove to all your friends that you paid $5000 for a beam. Which is always good for a laugh.

I wonder why Noah didn't think of this. "And for a donation of just 5000 sheckels, your name is guaranteed to appear in Genesis 8."

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-02-2010 8:01 PM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by ringo, posted 07-06-2012 1:13 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 256 by Gracchus, posted 07-09-2012 12:55 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
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ringo
Member
Posts: 12922
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 255 of 259 (667374)
07-06-2012 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by Dr Adequate
07-06-2012 1:37 AM


Re: Not going to happen, and it won't work if they actually do try
Dr Adequate writes:

I see that a donation of $100 will enable you to sponsor ... a peg.


They must be using the same contractor as the government.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-06-2012 1:37 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
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