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Author Topic:   When Earth’s population was 10,000 persons
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 121 of 194 (628575)
08-10-2011 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by celestialGyoud
08-10-2011 4:29 PM


Re: A belief named Natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body
Something that occurs often and constantly indeed: Human population has never stopped growing.

This is only a very recent phenomenon. There is every reason to suspect that once humans spread to a new geographic area that their numbers stabilized quite quickly. Only with the advent of the industrial revolution did we see massive increases in human population sizes. The human population growth was in the negative in 1917. There is every reason to suspect that these dips in human population were even more common in the absence of modern medicine and agricultural techniques. If the modern famines in Africa had occurred 2,000 years ago what would have been the result? Massive loss of life orders of magnitude higher than what we are seeing right now.

What we have are regional disasters happening on a regular basis all across the globe. None of this is factored into your argument.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by celestialGyoud, posted 08-10-2011 4:29 PM celestialGyoud has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by celestialGyoud, posted 02-13-2012 9:41 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5988
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 122 of 194 (628588)
08-10-2011 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by celestialGyoud
08-10-2011 4:29 PM


Re: Incoherency
Sorry, your post is incoherent.

You seem to be letting religious belief supersede common sense and empirical evidence. Not a very practical thing to do.

Human populations, for almost all of our history, have reacted to the forces of nature, the benefits of technology, the geographic spread of the populations, and a lot of other factors. It is only in the recent past that we have been able to significantly influence some of these factors.

But what you are trying to tell us (I think) relies on some form of young earth belief. It's hard to tell.

Could you try again, please? Maybe I have just misread what you posted.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by celestialGyoud, posted 08-10-2011 4:29 PM celestialGyoud has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by celestialGyoud, posted 08-11-2011 4:27 PM Coyote has responded

  
celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 36 days)
Posts: 553
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 123 of 194 (628637)
08-11-2011 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Coyote
08-10-2011 10:19 PM


Human population on a global scale never stopped growing
-

Coyote,

Due to the perspective presented by the Natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body; that there would have been families of Humans multiplying on this Earth for over 150 thousand years,

the authors of the same theory, based on the above info, should bring up what’s the approximate number of population of Humans that would have multiplied 70 thousand years ago, but they have presented no numbers at all for two reasons:

-

I – because they were not asked nor inquired to do so;

II – they would not do it anyway because it would be the same as to produce proof against themselves.

-

Therefore, it is not incoherent to state that the authors of such theory for the origin of the Human body would never admit that the Human population on a global scale never stopped growing, and they would not bring up any list of numbers so that they may not produce proof against themselves, because the many jobs and the reputation of many Universities come first in the rank of things that matters more, followed by the sponsorships and sales of many books about the origin of the Human body.

-

Coyote writes:

But what you are trying to tell us ..
.. Could you try again, please? Maybe I have just misread what you posted.

-

No matter what approximate numbers are brought up, such theory for the origin of the Human body will still require a strong belief that when Earth's population was at 10,000 inhabitants that it would have taken over 55 thousand years to reach 1 million.

As it was cleared up, the following numbers are just approximate numbers based on the perspective presented by the Natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body; that there would have been families of Humans multiplying on this Earth for over 150 thousand years,

-

quote:

-

70 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10,000 inhabitants
50 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million inhabitants
40 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?
35 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?
25 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?

-

Distinction between Two Criterias

-

Criteria I – (based on a belief) – Something that could rarely occur, eg annihilation on a global scale, that occurs often enough over 55 thousand years.

Criteria II – Something that occurs often and constantly indeed: Human population has never stopped growing.

-

Taq writes:

.. Human populations can go from 1 million to 10,000 in a single year ..

-

This is the criteria that the representants of the Natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body have often presented:

as you stated, let’s all consider (or believe) that something which very rarely happens would often occur during over 55 thousand years, that would be the believed reason why, when Earth's population was at 10,000 inhabitants, it would have taken over 55 thousand years to reach 1 million.

Just as the father of the beliefs/lies said, Everything is possible if one work up a strong belief! Something occuring that would drastically bring down the population and would be something that occured with regularity.

The only Diagnostic left: The Natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body became obsolete because it’s grasping at straws and causing people to work up a strong belief:

• something that could rarely occur, eg annihilation on a global scale, that occurs often enough over 55 thousand years, that could be the only thing that would wipe out enough of the human population to bring it down to 10,000 from a million, let's say, but for that event to occur with regularity is totally ridiculous, but it's so much easier to swallow that camel.

-

Final Conclusion: That there were no families of Humans multiplying on the Earth 70 thousand years ago is evident, because of the fact that all things the Humans have done to the place called Earth during a single cluster of 7 thousand years, or when Earth’s population was 1 million persons, they would have done the same thing anyway during any of the three sequences of 14 thousand years that immediately precede the recent 7 thousand years.

Disconnection of time and place can be seen from the incompatibility between the consequences of having Humans on the Earth for a time no longer than 14 thousand years and the time proposed for their multiplication by the natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body.


-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Coyote, posted 08-10-2011 10:19 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Taq, posted 08-11-2011 4:54 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded
 Message 125 by Coyote, posted 08-11-2011 9:05 PM celestialGyoud has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 124 of 194 (628641)
08-11-2011 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by celestialGyoud
08-11-2011 4:27 PM


Re: Human population on a global scale never stopped growing
the authors of the same theory, based on the above info, should bring up what’s the approximate number of population of Humans that would have multiplied 70 thousand years ago, but they have presented no numbers at all for two reasons:

-

I – because they were not asked nor inquired to do so;

II – they would not do it anyway because it would be the same as to produce proof against themselves.

Disprove what, exactly, and how?

Therefore, it is not incoherent to state that the authors of such theory for the origin of the Human body would never admit that the Human population on a global scale never stopped growing,

It stopped growing at least two times that I am aware of: during the Black Death and in 1917 during the influenza pandemic.

Do you have anything to suggest that occurences like these did not occur in the past?

No matter what approximate numbers are brought up, such theory for the origin of the Human body will still require a strong belief that when Earth's population was at 10,000 inhabitants that it would have taken over 55 thousand years to reach 1 million.

If every couple had 4 children on average it would only take a few hundred years. By my math it would only take about 7 generations or 7*30 = 210 years if the generation time was 30 years.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by celestialGyoud, posted 08-11-2011 4:27 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5988
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 125 of 194 (628653)
08-11-2011 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by celestialGyoud
08-11-2011 4:27 PM


Re: Human population on a global scale never stopped growing
Final Conclusion: That there were no families of Humans multiplying on the Earth 70 thousand years ago is evident, because of the fact that all things the Humans have done to the place called Earth during a single cluster of 7 thousand years, or when Earth’s population was 1 million persons, they would have done the same thing anyway during any of the three sequences of 14 thousand years that immediately precede the recent 7 thousand years.

Disconnection of time and place can be seen from the incompatibility between the consequences of having Humans on the Earth for a time no longer than 14 thousand years and the time proposed for their multiplication by the natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body.


You are still posting gibberish.

The evidence shows that there were early humans some 200,000 years ago in some parts of the world. There were earlier groups also within genus Homo going back some 2 million years, and non-Homo groups before that.

The way that they multiplied started out identical to animals, but was gradually changed due to increasing culture and technology. The last 200 years has seen technology increase to be able to support much larger populations.

Can you address these topics? Can you show me where any of this is incorrect?

Because I still can't make out what you are trying to say.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by celestialGyoud, posted 08-11-2011 4:27 PM celestialGyoud has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by celestialGyoud, posted 09-13-2011 2:20 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 36 days)
Posts: 553
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 126 of 194 (633311)
09-13-2011 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Coyote
08-11-2011 9:05 PM


Re: Human population on a global scale never stopped growing
-

Coyote writes:

Can you show me where any of this is incorrect?

-

When stating that Human populations can go from 1 million to 10,000 in a single year, the criteria that the representants of the Natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body have often presented is a belief, saying: let’s all consider (or believe) that something which very rarely happens would often occur during over 55 thousand years, that would be the believed reason why, when Earth's population was at 10,000 inhabitants, it would have taken over 55 thousand years to reach 1 million.

quote:
Just as the father of the beliefs/lies said, Everything is possible if one work up a strong belief! Something occuring that would drastically bring down the population and would be something that occured with regularity. The Natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body becomes obsolete because it’s grasping at straws and causing people to work up a strong belief:

• something that could rarely occur, eg annihilation on a global scale, that occurs often enough over 55 thousand years;

That could be the only thing that would wipe out enough of the human population to bring it down to 10,000 from a million, let's say, but for that event to occur with regularity is totally ridiculous, but it's so much easier to swallow that camel.


-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Coyote, posted 08-11-2011 9:05 PM Coyote has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Taq, posted 09-13-2011 2:33 PM celestialGyoud has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 127 of 194 (633316)
09-13-2011 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by celestialGyoud
09-13-2011 2:20 PM


Re: Human population on a global scale never stopped growing
When stating that Human populations can go from 1 million to 10,000 in a single year, the criteria that the representants of the Natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body have often presented is a belief, saying: let’s all consider (or believe) that something which very rarely happens would often occur during over 55 thousand years, that would be the believed reason why, when Earth's population was at 10,000 inhabitants, it would have taken over 55 thousand years to reach 1 million.

You are posting gibberish.

You have yet to show any evidence that the human population had to be 10,000 at any point in history. Until you show us this evidence you are making empty claims.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by celestialGyoud, posted 09-13-2011 2:20 PM celestialGyoud has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by celestialGyoud, posted 09-13-2011 4:06 PM Taq has responded

  
celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 36 days)
Posts: 553
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 128 of 194 (633331)
09-13-2011 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Taq
09-13-2011 2:33 PM


Re: Human population on a global scale never stopped growing
-

quote:
Writes:

You have yet to show any evidence that the human population had to be 10,000 at any point in history.


-

I don't have to, precisely because I never said that it had to be 10,000 at any point in history

• What I just did was bring up scenarios using those numbers and I would think most can figure it out.

Therefore,

Whenever a person does not show you which road is the right one,

It does not mean that all persons must believe that the right one is yours.

-


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Taq, posted 09-13-2011 2:33 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 09-13-2011 4:58 PM celestialGyoud has responded
 Message 131 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2011 10:08 AM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 129 of 194 (633341)
09-13-2011 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by celestialGyoud
09-13-2011 4:06 PM


Re: Human population on a global scale never stopped growing
I don't have to, precisely because I never said that it had to be 10,000 at any point in history

Now that we have that established, would you also agree that the human population did not have to be continuously growing at all times in the last 100,000 years?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by celestialGyoud, posted 09-13-2011 4:06 PM celestialGyoud has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Panda, posted 09-13-2011 5:34 PM Taq has not yet responded
 Message 148 by celestialGyoud, posted 02-29-2012 4:24 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 1241 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 130 of 194 (633348)
09-13-2011 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Taq
09-13-2011 4:58 PM


Re: Human population on a global scale never stopped growing
Taq writes:

Now that we have that established, would you also agree that the human population did not have to be continuously growing at all times in the last 100,000 years?


As an example of what can reduce populations:
quote:
The Black Death is estimated to have killed 30–60 percent of Europe's population, reducing the world's population from an estimated 450 million to between 350 and 375 million in 1400.

It took 150 years for Europe's population to recover.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

(I realise that CD7 is not likely to understand, but I thought others might be interested in some figures showing how devastating the plague was.
Imagine that many deaths in less than a decade...)


Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR

Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 09-13-2011 4:58 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9912
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 131 of 194 (633479)
09-14-2011 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by celestialGyoud
09-13-2011 4:06 PM


Re: Human population on a global scale never stopped growing
I don't have to, precisely because I never said that it had to be 10,000 at any point in history

Just to be clear then, are you denying that the human population was ever 10,000 humans?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by celestialGyoud, posted 09-13-2011 4:06 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

    
celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 36 days)
Posts: 553
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 132 of 194 (651855)
02-10-2012 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Coyote
01-28-2011 10:53 AM


Re: Distinction between human prototypes and ancestor
Coyote writes:

How do you explain the several hundred different Native American languages in California?

-

The more different their languages are, the more demonstration it is that in the beginning they did not spread to America all by themselves. The understanding is given that their forefathers were brought and settled, by intelligent designer, in their respective lands.

-


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Coyote, posted 01-28-2011 10:53 AM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Coyote, posted 02-10-2012 7:49 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded
 Message 134 by frako, posted 02-11-2012 9:19 AM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5988
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 133 of 194 (651923)
02-10-2012 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by celestialGyoud
02-10-2012 3:47 PM


Re: Distinction between human prototypes and ancestor
Coyote writes:

How do you explain the several hundred different Native American languages in California?

The more different their languages are, the more demonstration it is that in the beginning they did not spread to America all by themselves. The understanding is given that their forefathers were brought and settled, by intelligent designer, in their respective lands.

Sorry, no. The more different their languages are, and the more languages, the more time has elapsed since the people first occupied that area.

The languages can readily be grouped into families and traced backwards, and the results of that linguistic research agree closely with evidence from DNA and archaeology.

No intelligent designer needed; people are perfectly capable of spreading into new territories, and languages are known to diverge through time. As an example, try reading Chaucer in the original old English and see how well you do. That literature is only a little over 600 years old, with writing to help standardize and stabilize the language.

But you knew all that. You just chose to believe ancient tribal myths instead of what the evidence shows.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by celestialGyoud, posted 02-10-2012 3:47 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2705
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 134 of 194 (651977)
02-11-2012 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by celestialGyoud
02-10-2012 3:47 PM


Re: Distinction between human prototypes and ancestor
The more different their languages are, the more demonstration it is that in the beginning they did not spread to America all by themselves. The understanding is given that their forefathers were brought and settled, by intelligent designer, in their respective lands.

Sorry but there is evidence how language evolved

http://www.cosmostv.org/...is-how-eve-spoke-every-human.html


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by celestialGyoud, posted 02-10-2012 3:47 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

    
celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 36 days)
Posts: 553
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 135 of 194 (652289)
02-13-2012 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Taq
08-10-2011 4:50 PM


The miscegenation system implied in the natural selection theory
-

Taq writes:

There is every reason to suspect that once humans spread to a new geographic area that their numbers stabilized quite quickly ..

-

Taq, that is not the point.

Time for you to see beyond the spoon. All these shallow subjects, .. how language evolved, .. your lack of evidence about human population being 10,000 at any point in history .. , these subjects are obsolete and won't help you to solve the real matter highlighted in the O.P. since the point is about possibility based on real facts:

-

Observation shows that when humans spread to a territory all by themselves, this fact does not originate groups of different languages and ethnies. To the contrary, it brings miscegenation and then causes some languages and ethnies to disappear.

On this, one ascertains that families of Humans did not spread to Europe during the time proposed for their multiplication by the natural selection theory which becomes obsolete. The possibility left is that sets of groups were previously selected and settled, by intelligent designer, in their respective lands otherwise Europe would be one miscegenated people even before they could become groups of different languages and ethnies.

-

Albanians . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Crimean Tatars . . . . . Germanic people . . . . Portuguese
Armenians . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Croats . . . . . . . . . . . . Greeks . . . . . . . . . . . Romanians
Aromanians . . . . . . . . . . . . . Czech . . . . . . . . . . . . Hungarians . . . . . . . . Russian
Basques . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dutch . . . . . . . . . . . . Igbo people . . . . . . . . Scottish
Belarusians . . . . . . . . . . . . . Estonian . . . . . . . . . . Irish people . . . . . . . . Slovenes
Ethnic groups in Belgium . . . . Finnish . . . . . . . . . . . Italians . . . . . . . . . . . Spanish people
Bosniaks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . French . . . . . . . . . . . Latvians . . . . . . . . . . Swedes
Brittish people . . . . . . . . . . . . Gaelic . . . . . . . . . . . . Lithuaneans . . . . . . . Swiss
Bulgarians . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Georgians . . . . . . . . . Macedonian . . . . . . . Turks
Celts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . German people . . . . . Netherlands . . . . . . . Ukrainians
Cossacks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Polish

-

All of non-Russian Europe fits into the map of Brazil.

-

Europe isn't so large that it could originate so much different languages and ethnies through a system of miscegenation which is the precise mixing implied in the natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body.

-

Indeed a total miscegenation would be unavoidable since such theory implies that the mixing would have taken more than 55 thousand years in Europe. Turning back to real european life, people take a walk and in awhile they are spread all over the hills and far away.

-

There are other things to see along the open road which is neither evolution nor creation. The human body was formed but not created by a deity. Human beings might have been made by a person, (s)he might be called by the name, 'I Am the beginning and the end, the first and the last', a person with so much knowledge of different sequences of times and realms. A person with power and technology to make all things new, making the beginning of all things and restarting the immortality.

-

quote:
Many many men can't see the open road
Many times I've lied, and many times I've listened
*Many is a word and name of who only leaves you guessin'
Guessin’ bout a thing one really ought not to lie,
You really ought to know

-
* Legion's name: To Be Many

-
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10,000 inhabitants
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million inhabitants
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?

-

That there were no families of Humans multiplying on the Earth 70 thousand years ago is evident, because of the fact that all things the Humans have done to the place called Earth during a single cluster of 7 thousand years, they would have done the same thing anyway during any of the three sequences of 14 thousand years that immediately precede the recent 7 thousand years. Disconnection of time and place can be seen from the incompatibility between the consequences of having Humans on the Earth for a time no longer than 14 thousand years and the time proposed for their multiplication by natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body.


-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Taq, posted 08-10-2011 4:50 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Panda, posted 02-13-2012 10:35 AM celestialGyoud has responded
 Message 140 by NoNukes, posted 02-15-2012 7:15 AM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

    
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