Article: Religion and Science

So you will continue your willful ignorance even to include what has been said to you. No problem. It's a perfect example of my point.People who have been brainwashed and indoctrinated into the Literalist Christian mentality are incapable of critical analysis. They are incapable of making reasoned decisions. How can we in good conscience expect them to make reasoned descisions when they have been trained, brainwashed, to ignore reality if it conflicts with some belief?You say: I find it absolutely unbelievable that parents want to teach their children falsehoods. It is absolutely unbelievable that a parent wants to handicap their own child, to cripple their own child. That is what Literalist Christians are doing. They are attacking their children, their country, the world, the environment and the message of Jesus.I fear the world that will result from such ignorant parents. I fear the current drive towards tyranny led by Literalist Christians. They scare the hell out of me.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

My problem is with willful ignorance. It doesn't matter where that happens, in home schooling or the public system. I thought for a long time that it would be possible to reason with such people. I was wrong. There is no compromise, no possibility of consensus or middle ground with the Literalist Christians. Read some of Faith's posts.The only hope is that a few of the cult members will be lurkers on boards such as this. It's possible that one or two of them might come across something that sparks an interest and they begin learning for the first time. We certainly have seen examples of that.I believe though that it's time the majority of Christians took Christianity back from the religious right. It is not just to protect science, it's to protect the US, the world and humanity itself.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I never questioned that there are many scientific issues still to be resolved. I thought that for a long time. Then I began talking to many of them here at EvC. But we are not dealing with things still to be resolved. The exact age of the universe is open and will be defined over the next many decades, but it is NOT 6000 years.The issue is not even with the specific knowledge, it's with the metal lockbox that says, "If this disagrees with my preconceived notions it is wrong, regardless of the supporting evidence."

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I have never said that it's a crime or abuse or that any legislation is needed to counter it. What I have said is that the Christian Literalists have createdWhat I have said is that the Literalist Christian has created a mental lockbox that allows them to ignore, to disbelieve facts, to be willfully ignorant. I have no problem with them remaining ignorant. They are free to believe whatever they want, wrong, but still free to believe it.However, they are actively trying to infiltrate and subvert our country by taking over school borads, local government and the media. And once they get in such positions of power they immediately try to force ignorance on the general public. That's exactly what is happening in Kansas.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Thank you Faith for providing yet another example of willful ignorance. I realize you believe that is true, but you're wrong!Since the topic of this thread is religion and science you are an invaluable resource. Once again you've show that a literal christian viewpoint is incompatible with science, reality or the world we live in.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

let me get you to explain how I could better handle such a discussion.When someone believes something which is Factually wrong, say they believe 2 + 2 = 5, what is the best policy? Should we accept that they believe 2 + 2 = 5?Economically, I can see your point. By acknowledging their belief they can be paid with two twenties for every fifty dollars of salary, an immediate savings of 20% in the cost of labor. We can give them 12.8 ounces of beef when they order a pound. When they answer every question on the test we can give them a grade of 80.You may well have a point.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

So once again, instead of answering the question you resort to personal attack.Once again, let me get you to explain how I could better handle such a discussion.When someone believes something which is Factually wrong, say they believe 2 + 2 = 5, what is the best policy? Should we accept that they believe 2 + 2 = 5?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

So I should respect their opinion and belief that 2 + 2 = 5? So when it comes to pay day, should they be paid two $20.00 bills for every $50.00 they earn?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

And so you avoid answering the question.When someone believes something that is factually wrong, for example, 2 + 2 = 5, how should they be handled? Should others respect their opinion and pay them with two $20.00 bills for every $50.00 earned?This is an important question and goes to the heart of this topic.Still waiting for an answer.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

How is it irrelevant?If someone believes that 2 + 2 = 5, should we support their belief?How is it barbarian?Would the persons best interest be served by allowing them to maintain a wrongly held belief?How is it bullying?If their belief was supported by only paying them two $20.00 bills for every $50.00 they earned, would that not be considered bullying?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

How is it an attack?If someone believes something that is factually wrong, for example, that 2 + 2 = 5, how should people respond? Should the persons belief be affirmed?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

So were you a Johnny? Do much late dating? I always enjoyed both hanging around St. John's and also the dichotomy of the two sides of the street.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well, I can't comment on SF or SFGI since they opened the Santa Fe operation a few years after I was messing around the areas. I don't think the middies were half as upset about the goat incidents as curfew. The Middies would make the date, take the young lady to dinner and a movie, cover the entertainment costs, and then when they returned to the Academy before curfew, have to see the Johnnies lined up across the street waiting patiently for the good-night kiss before taking their date out for post dinner festivities.The reason I bring this up is that there really was a major dichotomy between the philosophies on the two sides of the street, perhaps more clearly shown there than any other single place I can think of. One was highly structured and very scientific based, the other, less structured (lecture, seminar and tutorial) and far more liberal arts oriented. But both were oriented towards honesty in their approach to learning.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Interesting stories. Thanks for sharing. One day I'll tell you about my daughters Santa awakening, sorta.So how would you handle the question I asked Faith? How should someone who believes 2 + 2 = 5 be treated?Should we respect their belief and pay them with two $20.00 for every $50.00 owed?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Take all the time you want but I can't see how you have addressed my question at all. So far it's all been on the south side of the street.Please don't feel any pressure to respond before you're ready.When you are ready, please let me know and we can return to the question of how one should respond to someone who believes 2 + 2 = 5.AbE: I have enjoyed reading your treatise and look forward to your summation.This message has been edited by jar, 06-25-2005 11:20 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion