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Author Topic:   Report Discussion Problems Here 4.0
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15972
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 541 of 622 (805087)
04-15-2017 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Admin
04-15-2017 11:51 AM


Re: Dr. A's endless meaningless insults
They may be wrong or mistaken, but they're not liars.

Yes he is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Admin, posted 04-15-2017 11:51 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13874
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 542 of 622 (805090)
04-15-2017 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Admin
04-15-2017 11:51 AM


Re: Dr. A's endless meaningless insults
Admin writes:

People aren't liars here. They may be wrong or mistaken, but they're not liars.


In the Canadian Parliament, we call it "misleading the House."

Call it what you like, it still results in flaming pants.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Admin, posted 04-15-2017 11:51 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 8.5


(4)
Message 543 of 622 (805091)
04-15-2017 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Admin
04-15-2017 11:51 AM


Re: Dr. A's endless meaningless insults
David Jay is the worst, most egregious liar we have had here in a long time. He makes other creos look like virtues of truth. This is not a perfect world and debate sites do attract liars. When the mods refuse to enforce rules for a certain subset, their behaviour will continue to devolve. Making up facts, changing arguments in midstream and claiming other posters said something other than what they actually said, are all forms of lying.
Dr. A is not the problem. He is doing the only reasonable thing to do when confronted with a member as dishonest as DavidJay. If mods will not call out the lying it is up to the members.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Admin, posted 04-15-2017 11:51 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29612
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


(2)
Message 544 of 622 (805094)
04-15-2017 12:57 PM


I do believe that Creationists should be allowed to lie freely without any administrative interference. After all it is the only tool Creationists, Young Earth marketers and Inerrant Bible folk have.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 545 by Theodoric, posted 04-15-2017 1:22 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 8.5


Message 545 of 622 (805095)
04-15-2017 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 544 by jar
04-15-2017 12:57 PM


I do believe that Creationists should be allowed to lie freely without any administrative interference.

Then calling them on it should be without administrative interference also.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 544 by jar, posted 04-15-2017 12:57 PM jar has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15972
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(4)
Message 546 of 622 (805096)
04-15-2017 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Admin
04-15-2017 11:51 AM


Re: Dr. A's endless meaningless insults
You do have to stop. This is a debate site, not an insult site. People aren't liars here. They may be wrong or mistaken, but they're not liars.

Not only is he a liar, but his lies prevent the site from functioning as a debate site. Let me show you what I mean.

On the "definition of evolution" thread he writes "My definition of evolution is "LUCK and CHANCE". This, I will grant you, could be the moronic blunder of a man who shouldn't be allowed near sharp objects.

But mark what follows. He is then roundly mocked for this by Coyote, herebedragons, jar, me, Tangle, Diomedes dwise1, vimessy and CRR. We disagree with him in terms ranging from the patronizing to the vehement by way of contemptuous --- to which the halfwitted liar replies: "Yes, agreed, me and evolutionists seem to all agree evolution is by pure luck and chance" and "No one has differed that evolution is by CHANCE so I say its accepted definition by all, is LUCK or if you like CHANCE."

How is it possible to have a debate with someone sufficiently dishonest that he lies to us about whether we disagree with him?

Or consider the following little exchange:

ringo writes:

First, I asked for two or three hundred. You're short by 189.

Second, I asked for real scientists who don't accept evolution. The first five on your list died before evolution was ever explained so they clearly don't follow. Did anybody on your list actually reject evolution?

You could have just said, no, you can't name real scientists who reject evolution.

The halfwitted liar replies:

Davidjay writes:

But thanks for admitting I meet your challenge and won... won again.

Much appreciated

Ringo says that the halfwitted liar has failed. The halfwitted liar thanks Ringo for "admitting" that he "won".

These are not mistakes. They are lies, and they are lies of a sort that render debate impossible, since the essence of them is to deny, in the face of the facts, that debate is taking place. Apparently this site is not devoted to debate but to unanimous agreement with the wisdom of David Jay Jordan. Or so he says.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Admin, posted 04-15-2017 11:51 AM Admin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by Tangle, posted 04-15-2017 3:04 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 548 by Admin, posted 04-16-2017 8:00 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5157
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 547 of 622 (805097)
04-15-2017 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by Dr Adequate
04-15-2017 2:11 PM


Re: Dr. A's endless meaningless insults
I've been wondering about this for a while; is he lying or is he just deluded?

I've decided he's both. He's also quite probably stark, staring bonkers. And it's this last that's the major issue.

I also wonder why we do this, it's a bit like taunting the local village idiot. It doesn't feel right. It also can't work, these poor sods are only reinforced in their delusion by our efforts. They don't have the capacity for independent thought.

I'm considering my motives.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 2:11 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12534
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 548 of 622 (805134)
04-16-2017 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 546 by Dr Adequate
04-15-2017 2:11 PM


Re: Dr. A's endless meaningless insults
Before accusing someone of lying you have show that they're lying, in other words, that they're reciting untruths that they know are untrue. This is your burden for each new lie.

You provide a good example of Davidjay lying in your post, and that's all you need do, make clear the lie. Without that it's just name-calling and insults, and readers have no way of knowing what you think he's lying about. That someone is a liar must be established with evidence and argument just like any other claim at this website.

Still, Tangle makes a good point. For all we know Davidjay is damaged goods and we're just unwittingly engaged in a cruel exercise of torturing the fool.

And Minnemooseus made another good point when he mentioned Brad McFall, whom we tolerated good-naturedly for many years. Doing the same for Davidjay will be a bit tougher given his more obnoxious style, but it *is* an option.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 2:11 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6026
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


(5)
Message 549 of 622 (805155)
04-16-2017 10:27 AM


Davidjay
Davidjay is proposing another new thread -- in which he can ignore the evidence presented showing he's wrong?

Perhaps he should be urged to defend the silly claims he's made in previous threads before being given a new one in which to make more silly claims.

He claims he's teaching, but he's really preaching.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26606
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 550 of 622 (805395)
04-18-2017 11:37 AM


jar's endless insults
Jar did it again. A post that's nothing but a slur on his opponent. Plus the usual statement of his own opinion as if it were fact. Everybody does this once in a while, I certainly have done it (though I've been really good for a while now) but for jar it's just about his M.O. and this one was one of those last straws for me:

jar writes:

The Biblical Flood has been totally refuted and no honest person who is not either deluded or willfully ignorant disputes that fact.


Being called willfully ignorant and dishonest over and over gets VERY wearing, not to mention that it's against the rules.

ABE: And in Message 185 We find him calling me a liar again, based only on his different opinion that is the subject of the debate.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6026
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 551 of 622 (805723)
04-20-2017 10:18 AM


Continental daft
Based on the word salad in the TRVE Flood thread (Message 317), with the same thing being posted in a proposed continental drift thread (Message 2) I suggest that thread not be promoted.

Just more unsupported nonsense.

His claims about the global flood have been refuted many times over in the TRVE Flood thread, but he just continues posting as if we had never posted and refuted his claims at all.

He's preaching, not debating.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


Replies to this message:
 Message 552 by Davidjay, posted 04-20-2017 10:25 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 552 of 622 (805727)
04-20-2017 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 551 by Coyote
04-20-2017 10:18 AM


Re: Continental drift
Continental Drift is a topic in geology, not only because of history but because of plate shifting, that can cause earthquakes in the HERE and NOW.

Evolutionists surely have their one inch per year theory, or nothing catastrophic ever happens in life or histroy, whereas other geologists believe that catastrophic events are evident (such as Darwin and Vieoksky (Spelling).

Evolutionists need not be afraid of a discussion of theories.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 551 by Coyote, posted 04-20-2017 10:18 AM Coyote has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26606
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 553 of 622 (805785)
04-20-2017 5:03 PM


Jar needs a good smack
Jar will not stop calling me a liar and ignorant. If you will not suspend him and if he doesn't stop I'm going to keep throwing it back at him because he deserves it. I'll happily take a suspension myself for my Message 331 (and others) if you'll give him the LENGTHY suspension he so richly deserves for his Message 329(actually this sequence starts at 325) and his ongoing offenses of the same type. This little side trip continues through message 339, I hope that's the end of it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 556 by Davidjay, posted 04-21-2017 9:05 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
CRR
Member
Posts: 578
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 554 of 622 (805843)
04-21-2017 4:40 AM


A message you posted has just received a reply:
From: dwise1
Message: Re: An Alternative consistent and coherent model (Message 367)
Thread: How do you define the word Evolution?
Forum: Biological Evolution
Text of message:

Re: An Alternative consistent and coherent model

Common sense is integral to science.

Sorry, but that hit a nerve that's been over-sensitized by fucking stupid creationist rhetorics.

I've been following this bullshit since 1981. Not only have I ridden around the park a few times, I have worn very deep ruts in that road.

One of the stock bullshit creationist complaints is that "evolution" (which they misrepresent grossly, hence the "scare quotes") is somehow "counter-intuitive" and will somehow "confuse the students". All while they appeal to "common sense" explanations.

As I have already just explained to CRR (Message 365), there is nothing common sense to "common sense" explanations, plus, those "common sense explanations" are just as likely to be completely wrong.

The point is that "common sense" can be and most often is complete bullshit. And exposing students to that fact should not confuse them, but rather make them think! And question. And test.

Creationists want students to sit comfortably in their false pre-conceived ideas, but science requires them to test everything. So much of how the world actually works is very counter-intuitive.

Students need to understand that, not be locked into dungeons of ignorance as creationists want.


  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26606
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 555 of 622 (805860)
04-21-2017 8:51 AM


Pressie
Pressie also has a bad habit of making personal comments. To a post of mine on a book about the Grand Canyon he replied with a personal comment. He very rarely ever comments on the content of anything.

This one is funny and also tragic. A person who thinks that the Cambrian is a layer claims that she could debunk a book written on those rocks by actual geologists who studied those rocks...

Message 356 on the True History of the Flood

Thank you for your attention to this and to the jar problem; if he stops it we'll be fine.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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