The Brand New Birther Thread

But people do that all the time Faith. There are people that create documents that say the Bible is without error and documents that say evolution is not fact and documents that say the earth is young and documents that say Trump won the majority votes and documents that say the Russians didn't hack the servers to help Trump and documents that same Obama is a Muslim and documents that say Roman Catholics are not Christians and documents that say global warming is not a fact.Sure it's depressing but many people, particularly Americans, still seem to believe such nonsense.

What?Ya know, Paul, I have a hard time following all your convoluted paranoid accusations of me. They make no sense. They reveal nothing about me but suggest loads of dark things about your own mentality, beyond my fathoming.

Nothing you said is true. None of those things are argued on the basis of "documents" saying this or that, they are argued on the basis of the known facts about the situations.

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But the documents that have been offered from Obama's side have all sorts of problems on them too. I hate to bring it up because I really don't want to have to go through all that again

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They are certainly less problematic and with better provenance than those you have used.

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What about the publisher of his book, or his agent or whoever she was, who wrote in a blurb to the book that he was born in Kenya?

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That isn't exactly great evidence. And if it is the best you have - as it seems to be - then you haven't got a worthwhile case.

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Same thing as with the grandmother: it takes weird rationalizations to dispense with both of those

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She says Obama was born in Hawaii.

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And the mailman's testimony? Was that a hoax too? He said Bill Ayers' wife, don't remember her name, had talked glowingly about their foreign exchange student, or words to that effect, and then he met him on one of his deliveries and he told him he was going to be President of the US some day. Just the fact that he was identified as foreign is enough without the strange "prophecy" but I have no reason to doubt the prophecy either yet.

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From Wikipedia it appears that Obama was already teaching at the time he first met Ayers. So it seems unlikely that he would be described as a "foreign exchange student".

That is the same thing you keep saying yet so far no one has ever actually produced any evidence to support any of those things. All that ever gets produced are documents asserting those things just as with Obama being a Muslim or not a Natural Born Citizen.Americans seem to love falsehoods that agree with what they wished was reality.

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Ya know, Paul, I have a hard time following all your convoluted paranoid accusations of me. They make no sense. They reveal nothing about me but suggest loads of dark things about your own mentality, beyond my fathoming.

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The logic is simple.If Muslims are threatened with the choice of conversion or death they can pretend to convert.This means that you cannot successfully convert Muslims by force.You object to it.If you aren't interested in converting Muslims by force, why would it even be relevant?

What's more they are not then allowed to practice or suggest others convert to Islam. It really shows Islam is a religion of peace and not set on world domination.What it says is that God is far more concerned with how people behave than what label of club they belong to.But on topic.Obama's mother was a citizen and so Obama, regardless of where he was born is a citizen.NOTHING in the US Constitution prohibits a Muslim or Buddhist or Atheist or Roman Catholic from being US President.Once again, facts and reality show the "Birthers" are simply wrong.

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The point was that Obama's foreign birth had been made a big issue for some time and was hotly contested on the level of facts.

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And that is not a relevant fact. If being born out of the country is sufficient to disqualify Obama as President then it also disqualifies Cruz. The fact that the claims are contested does not justify changing the criteria for Obama and it is absurd to even suggest that it does.And I would point out that if the claims were a false attempt to paint Obama as "foreign" surely they would be disputed.

Wrong Faith, because what we are comparing is your assumed situation regarding Obama to the actual facts about Cruz. It is a lie that Obama was born in Kenya, but taking that lie as truth ends up with a situation that is still slightly better than Cruz's actual situation. Again, the facts are that Cruz and his parents were all Canadian citizens and that Cruz was born in Canada. The lies about Obama attempt to get him to a similar state.So none of this why you reach dissimilar conclusions about the law. It is your, according to you, unexplained bias against Obama, which you claim is not just hatred. Despite your wishes, the constitution would not prevent a Muslim from becoming president anyway.

OK, but shouldn't there be some point at which they stop acting like the infidel and go all Allahu Akbar on our asses? Otherwise what's the point? Now here we have Obama, allegedly a Secret Muslim, who's spent eight years acting like an infidel while being the most powerful man in the world. So when's he going to turn Muslim on us, and in what way? Perhaps ... oh noes! ... perhaps when he's retired and sitting on a beach in Hawaii, he's going to sip an alcohol free pina colada? And thus his long-nurtured plan will reach its fiendish culmination.

In fact the US Constitution goes even further and makes it clear that someones religious beliefs cannot be used to prevent them from holding ANY Federal position or Job. This says that even the States cannot discriminate against someone who is a Muslim for any position of public Trust including as a Governor or Sheriff or likely even Chaplin of the Legislature.Note this was included even before the Bill of Rights section to assure that the US would never become a Christian Nation.So the issue of where Obama was born is irrelevant and even if he were a Muslim it is irrelevant.Reality must be a bitch for the Birthers.

As I said I have a terrible time understanding your weird thinking about all this. I have no interest in converting anyone "by force," it's utterly alien to the Christian mindset. You can't become a Christian that way, you have to be born again, that's not something that can be accomplished by force or by anything I could do or say. Your thinking is bizarre. Islam, on the other hand, started out with forced conversions at swordpoint. Mohammed got his followers by murdering everyone who refused to accept his doctrine. Perhaps you are confusing the two entirely different religions. Why would what be relevant? Their lying? I thought this came up because of the post about how Obama couldn't be a Muslim because he behaves like an infidel. I was explaining why that could be the case with a genuine Muslim, having to do with Islamic teachings. Lying to infidels is a problem whether there's any attempt to convert Muslims or not. Why wouldn't it be? If their true agenda is to enslave or subjugate or kill infidels and they are pretending to be like those infidels, such deceit is dangerous. But that hadn't come up anyway. Your accusation comes out of the blue, out of your own weird assumptions, unrelated to anything I've said.Obama's behavior wouldn't be the response to attempts to convert him, it would be a deceit to make it possible for him to become President in an atmosphere understood to be alien to Islam. It isn't just the "threat" of conversion that causes the deceit, it's anything considered to be important to further the causes of Islam.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Are you claiming that such is Obama's agenda?

I don't know Obama's agenda, although I would assume that if he is a Muslim his agenda is to promote Islam. What I said was a general statement about why lying to infidels is taught in Islam. Not all Muslims know all of the agenda of Islam, they just obey it.You couldn't have these questions if you knew the truth about Islam, its history and doctrines and the agenda of taking the world for Allah by all kinds of different methods. It's sad that so many refuse to learn these things, preferring -- what? -- to believe it's just another benign religion? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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As I said I have a terrible time understanding your weird thinking about all this. I have no interest in converting anyone "by force," it's utterly alien to the Christian mindset

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So why are you objecting to a doctrine that only comes into play if forcible conversion is on the table ?

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Why would what be relevant? Their lying?

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Since lying is only sanctioned in extreme circumstances - and even then only held to be forgivable - I do worry about why you think it could be relevant.

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I thought this came up because of the post about how Obama couldn't be a Muslim because he behaves like an infidel.

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Which is certainly not sanctioned by Islam - unless you think that there is a Republican Death Squad waiting to kill him the moment he eats a halal kebab or something equally absurd.

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Obama's behavior wouldn't be the response to attempts to convert him, it would be a deceit to make it possible for him to become President in an atmosphere understood to be alien to Islam. It isn't just the "threat" of conversion that causes the deceit, it's anything considered to be important to further the causes of Islam.

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So where is it sanctioned that one can ignore all the Pillars of Islam for decades to obtain power, and what has Obama actually done with that power that would make it worthwhile ?