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Author Topic:   The Story in the Rocks - Southwestern U.S.
Faith
Member
Posts: 25913
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 61 of 121 (781800)
04-07-2016 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by edge
04-07-2016 4:25 PM


Re: A Testament to Erosion
I have ignored nothing relevant,. I don't even know what you are talking about but that doesn't stop the accusations and slanders from you.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by edge, posted 04-07-2016 4:25 PM edge has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25913
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 62 of 121 (781801)
04-07-2016 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by edge
04-07-2016 4:25 PM


Re: A Testament to Erosion
I don't want to have this discussion. Of course they have to move vertically, what kind of sap are you to suggest I don't know that?

Don't you ever get tired of your accusations and deceits?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by edge, posted 04-07-2016 4:25 PM edge has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25913
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 63 of 121 (781803)
04-07-2016 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by edge
04-07-2016 4:10 PM


Re: A Testament to Erosion
A THEORY IN THE BEWGINNIONG STAGES ISN'T A RELIGIOUS VIEWPOINT. All you are doing is playing word games, you aren't interested in truth at all.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 25913
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 64 of 121 (781804)
04-07-2016 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by edge
04-07-2016 4:25 PM


Re: A Testament to Erosion
Does it make you happy to keep on pretending to debate with someone who has stopped debating? Does it make you feel like a big shot that you can accuse the opponent of errors that won't be answered? Do you feel like somehow your geological integrity has been defended by your deceitful means? You make up stuff against me and lie about me and I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THIS DEBATE.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-07-2016 8:17 PM Faith has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1562
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 65 of 121 (781806)
04-07-2016 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Faith
04-07-2016 8:08 PM


Re: A Testament to Erosion
Faith writes:

I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THIS DEBATE.

So, once again you crap all over a perfectly good discussion.

You know what they say......"Don't let the......."


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 8:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 8:30 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25913
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 66 of 121 (781811)
04-07-2016 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Tanypteryx
04-07-2016 8:17 PM


Re: A Testament to Erosion
Some discussion, all a slanderous attack on me after I've left it. Aren't you proud?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-07-2016 8:17 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29190
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 67 of 121 (781819)
04-07-2016 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by edge
04-07-2016 4:38 PM


compound/complex forces
If you have access to that set up would it be possible to get some images of compound forces; for example if the stress point was slanted vertically (both slopes) or squeezed at an angle (stress to front/stress to rear)?

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by edge, posted 04-07-2016 4:38 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by edge, posted 04-07-2016 9:44 PM jar has responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 3904
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 68 of 121 (781821)
04-07-2016 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by jar
04-07-2016 9:10 PM


Re: compound/complex forces
If you have access to that set up would it be possible to get some images of compound forces; for example if the stress point was slanted vertically (both slopes) or squeezed at an angle (stress to front/stress to rear)?

I do not have access do this apparatus. In this case, there's something about the setup that looks like it caused the right side to override the left. This may have something to do with the unconsolidated sediment, or the way it was deposited in the box, or the inclination of the driving platten. At any rate, the point remains that both compression and tension will cause vertical movement in the upper layers of the deformed material. Even if the force was only applied to just the lower layers, as per Faith's model, the top layers really should be deformed. I see no way of escaping this result unless the upper units were deposited later.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by jar, posted 04-07-2016 9:10 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by jar, posted 04-07-2016 10:01 PM edge has not yet responded
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 10:18 PM edge has responded
 Message 75 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-07-2016 11:52 PM edge has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29190
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 69 of 121 (781822)
04-07-2016 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by edge
04-07-2016 9:44 PM


Re: compound/complex forces
I agree but just hoped we could duplicate Faiths objections to satisfy her.

Long long ago and in a land far far away, when I was in what today would be middle school, the teacher (in a Christian school by the way) let us do similar experiments but we used sand and gravel and clay and got similar results with the added benefit of seeing the clay deformation both initially and over time. The clay showed some plasticity and continued deformation as it dried with cracks forming and the sand layer intruding into the cracks in the clay layer. The gravel also tended to work down into the sand layer where those two surfaces met.

But that was long ago and of course may not behave that way since the Fall.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by edge, posted 04-07-2016 9:44 PM edge has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25913
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 70 of 121 (781823)
04-07-2016 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by edge
04-07-2016 9:44 PM


Re: compound/complex forces
The sediments have to be WET and already fairly consolidated. A test with loose sediment is ridiculous. I think I may have described a test somewhere myself. The force should come from the side against yhe lower strata. YES I EXPECT THE FORCE TO AFFECT THE UPPER PART TOO, I EXPECT IT TO RAISE IT , to LIFT IT UP as I believe evidently occurred as shown on the GC cross section I've posted many times here. The apparatus has to be designed to allow this to happen as it would in nature. The lower strata BUCKLE, the upper strata are RAISED AT THE LEAST, sometimes other things happen to them, such as breaking up and being washed away. THIS IS THE FLOOD AFTER ALL, during or after I'm not sure, but the sediments are STILL WET when this occurs.

I HAVE THOUGHT THIS THROUGH MANY MANY TIMES, and you are just a self-important geologist who is always getting insulted if a creationist dares to disagree, so you're willing to resort to straw man duplicity and other tricks to win at all costs. Your model is a silly straw man. I've already thought about this and don't need your input.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by edge, posted 04-07-2016 9:44 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-07-2016 10:33 PM Faith has responded
 Message 73 by edge, posted 04-07-2016 11:42 PM Faith has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1562
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 71 of 121 (781825)
04-07-2016 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
04-07-2016 10:18 PM


Re: compound/complex forces
I thought you left.....

Faith writes:

you ape-brained self-important geologist who is always getting insulted if a creationist dares to disagree so you're willing to resort to straw man duplicity and other tricks to win at all costs. I resent your straw man model. I'm every bit as smart as you are, possibly even smarter, yes even about things geological, and I've already thought about this and don't need your hostile lame-brained input.

There is only one person being rude and insulting here and it is not edge or Jar. You are behaving like a total jerk, which typical when you realize that your argument won't hold water.

Our model describes Geology on this planet perfectly with nothing left out. Your model does not work, period.

Now, once again. this is a SCIENCE thread not a biblical flood thread.

Please go away like you said you would. I started this thread to discuss geological formation that I have seen with GEOLOGISTS.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 10:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 10:37 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25913
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 72 of 121 (781826)
04-07-2016 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Tanypteryx
04-07-2016 10:33 PM


Re: compound/complex forces
Yes I'm being rude. I can get even ruder. You deserve the same treatment for your smug misrepresentation in this post and so many others. I'm very happy to disrupt this slanderfest if at all possible.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-07-2016 10:33 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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edge
Member
Posts: 3904
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 73 of 121 (781829)
04-07-2016 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
04-07-2016 10:18 PM


Re: compound/complex forces
The sediments have to be WET and already fairly consolidated. A test with loose sediment is ridiculous. I think I may have described a test somewhere myself. The force should come from the side against yhe lower strata. YES I EXPECT THE FORCE TO AFFECT THE UPPER PART TOO, I EXPECT IT TO RAISE IT , to LIFT IT UP as I believe evidently occurred as shown on the GC cross section I've posted many times here. The apparatus has to be designed to allow this to happen as it would in nature. The lower strata BUCKLE, the upper strata are RAISED AT THE LEAST, sometimes other things happen to them, such as breaking up and being washed away. THIS IS THE FLOOD AFTER ALL, during or after I'm not sure, but the sediments are STILL WET when this occurs.
I HAVE THOUGHT THIS THROUGH MANY MANY TIMES, you ape-brained self-important geologist who is always getting insulted if a creat;ionist dares to disagree so you're willing to resort to straw man duplicity and other tricks to win at all costs. I resent your straw man model. I'm every bit as smart as you are, possibly even smarter, yes even about things geological, and I've already thought about this and don't need your hostile lame-brained input.

I understand that you are angry. That is my main take-away from your post. I can't do much about that.

This is basically a scale model with its shortcomings, but the point is still valid that the upper layers are uplifted and deformed. Do you see the lines cutting across the surface of the uppermost layer? Those are fault lines. See the fold that has been created? The axial plane of that fold will eventually rupture and form a major thrust fault that has to go somewhere and the only alternative is up.

So, where are those faults cutting the cutting the Great Unconformity? The underlying rocks are weakly to severely folded, so the strain must be very high. You cannot avoid the displacement.

Even if we accept your detachment theory, the strain is not uniform and there should be some implications for the overlying rocks.

In a dynamic analysis, you would need to explain how you apply the compressive forces to just a lower block. It is not clear how this is possible. What exactly is the vise-like plate that you envision? Please describe the source of the forces.

And I haven't even started on the necessary shear that must accompany your scenario.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 10:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Faith, posted 04-08-2016 1:09 AM edge has responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 3904
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 74 of 121 (781830)
04-07-2016 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
04-07-2016 10:37 PM


Re: compound/complex forces
Yes I'm being rude. I can get even ruder.

And what would that do for you?

Alternatively, you could learn something about rocks, time and motion and see how most of the world came to the same conclusions as the rest of us.

Even if you disagree.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 04-07-2016 10:37 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3530
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 75 of 121 (781831)
04-07-2016 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by edge
04-07-2016 9:44 PM


Re: compound/complex forces
Replaying message 58:

Here is an image of deformed sediments in a compression.

And here is one in tension.

In both cases, you can see that the uppermost layers are deformed, even more so than the lower layers. Some vertical deformation is required to take up strain.

In this case, there's something about the setup that looks like it caused the right side to override the left.

The compression was from moving the left wall. The right wall is fixed.

Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by edge, posted 04-07-2016 9:44 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by edge, posted 04-08-2016 12:10 AM Minnemooseus has responded

    
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