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Author Topic:   The great basic question of science on origin of life
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1479
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 46 of 64 (776792)
01-20-2016 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Vladimir Matveev
01-20-2016 12:24 AM


Re: Silence
Vladimir writes:

All the experts are trying to solve the problem of the origin of life only through protocells as the membrane compartments.

Really? That's not the impression I got from the work of specialists such as Craig Venter and his labs. Has he reviewed your work?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 01-20-2016 12:24 AM Vladimir Matveev has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 01-20-2016 9:29 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Vladimir Matveev
Junior Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 25
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Joined: 11-08-2015


Message 47 of 64 (776795)
01-20-2016 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Pressie
01-20-2016 8:30 AM


Re: Silence
quote:
Really? That's not the impression I got from the work of specialists such as Craig Venter and his labs. Has he reviewed your work?

A Reviwer rejected my MS wrote: "Dr. Matveev is convinced that the best model of a precellular structure are the so-called Fox microspheres, a belief that is shared by very few researchers nowadays, many of which are convinced that liposomes, micelles and equivalent microstructures are a much more realistic model of precellular structures."
As to Craig Venter, peer review is anonymous. This Craig Venter (http://sandwalk.blogspot.ru/...r-discusses-tree-of-life.html) is far from physical aspects of the origin of life.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Pressie, posted 01-20-2016 8:30 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 48 of 64 (776802)
01-20-2016 11:43 AM


To Vladimir
Hi, Vladimir

I apparently misunderstood you from the beginning. Many times when you wrote something, I interpreted it as saying the opposite. Others seem to have had much more success understanding you than I have, so I will leave it to them.

My apologies for the misapprehensions.


-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*

*Yeah, it's real

Darwin loves you.


Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 08-07-2016 12:29 AM Blue Jay has not yet responded

  
Vladimir Matveev
Junior Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 25
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Joined: 11-08-2015


Message 49 of 64 (788892)
08-07-2016 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Blue Jay
01-20-2016 11:43 AM


Oral presentation
Vladimir Matveev. The great basic question of science: Membrane compartment or non-membrane phase compartment is a physical basis for origin of life?
Oral presentation at The 2nd All-Russian Conference on Astrobiology. Moscow, Pushchino, 5-9 June 2016.
Video in English: https://youtu.be/Hn7A-1w0tuQ

Presentation slides in English as pdf:
http://www.bioparadigma.spb.ru/....of.science_Eng_Slides.pdf

Comments for slides in English:
http://www.bioparadigma.spb.ru/...f.science_Comments_Eng.pdf


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Blue Jay, posted 01-20-2016 11:43 AM Blue Jay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Genomicus, posted 08-07-2016 3:49 AM Vladimir Matveev has responded

    
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 781
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 50 of 64 (788895)
08-07-2016 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Vladimir Matveev
08-07-2016 12:29 AM


Re: Oral presentation
Hey Vladimir,

So I've been busy over the past couple of months, but will gradually be responding to posts and a Great Debate thread.

Anyway, I had a look at your presentation slides. It's an interesting hypothesis you propose. However, I'm not sure I quite see how it approaches the origin of life in a more effective manner than, e.g., Fox's microspheres. For starters, your model doesn't seem to address the origin of lipid membranes, a genetic code, and more sophisticated molecular machinery like F-ATPases. I'm probably missing something here, but I'm not sure I quite see what specific problem your model solves.

(Of course, it doesn't have to "solve" a problem necessarily, since exploratory science -- where alternatives models are offered -- can often be useful)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 08-07-2016 12:29 AM Vladimir Matveev has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 08-07-2016 5:16 AM Genomicus has not yet responded

  
Vladimir Matveev
Junior Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 25
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Joined: 11-08-2015


Message 51 of 64 (788902)
08-07-2016 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Genomicus
08-07-2016 3:49 AM


Re: Oral presentation
I'm probably missing something here, but I'm not sure I quite see what specific problem your model solves.

Hey, Genomics,

Phase approach has full experimental evidences in support of. Membrane approach has no such evidences. My (phase) model disproves membrane approach. However, the membrane approach is commonly accepted approach to solving the problem of the origin of life. This is my main contribution. Thanks for the answer.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Genomicus, posted 08-07-2016 3:49 AM Genomicus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Pressie, posted 08-08-2016 7:30 AM Vladimir Matveev has responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1479
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 52 of 64 (788939)
08-08-2016 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Vladimir Matveev
08-07-2016 5:16 AM


Re: Oral presentation
Vladimir Matveev writes:

I'm probably missing something here, but I'm not sure I quite see what specific problem your model solves. Hey, Genomics, Phase approach has full experimental evidences in support of. Membrane approach has no such evidences. My (phase) model disproves membrane approach. However, the membrane approach is commonly accepted approach to solving the problem of the origin of life. This is my main contribution. Thanks for the answer.

So, you agree that life was not poofed into existence.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 08-07-2016 5:16 AM Vladimir Matveev has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 08-08-2016 7:53 AM Pressie has responded

    
Vladimir Matveev
Junior Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 25
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Joined: 11-08-2015


Message 53 of 64 (788941)
08-08-2016 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Pressie
08-08-2016 7:30 AM


Re: Oral presentation
"So, you agree that life was not poofed into existence."

Biophase is the physical basis of life, and therefore it originated on this basis and exists on the same basis.

Please see my presentation for details. Thanks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Pressie, posted 08-08-2016 7:30 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Pressie, posted 08-08-2016 8:27 AM Vladimir Matveev has responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1479
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 54 of 64 (788942)
08-08-2016 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Vladimir Matveev
08-08-2016 7:53 AM


Re: Oral presentation
Vladimir Matveev writes:

Biophase is the physical basis of life, and therefore it originated on this basis and exists on the same basis.Please see my presentation for details. Thanks.

So, you agree that life was not poofed into existence?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 08-08-2016 7:53 AM Vladimir Matveev has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 08-08-2016 12:12 PM Pressie has responded

    
Vladimir Matveev
Junior Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 25
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Joined: 11-08-2015


Message 55 of 64 (788944)
08-08-2016 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Pressie
08-08-2016 8:27 AM


Re: Oral presentation
"So, you agree that life was not poofed into existence?"

Nobody knows the answer to this question. Fundamentally important question: what is the correct model of the living cell.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Pressie, posted 08-08-2016 8:27 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Pressie, posted 08-11-2016 8:12 AM Vladimir Matveev has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1479
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 56 of 64 (789130)
08-11-2016 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Vladimir Matveev
08-08-2016 12:12 PM


Re: Oral presentation
So, you agree that life was not poofed into existence.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 08-08-2016 12:12 PM Vladimir Matveev has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by NoNukes, posted 08-11-2016 9:47 AM Pressie has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9322
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 57 of 64 (789143)
08-11-2016 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Pressie
08-11-2016 8:12 AM


Re: Oral presentation
So, you agree that life was not poofed into existence.

Didn't he answer that question already? He says that nobody knows.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Pressie, posted 08-11-2016 8:12 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Pressie, posted 08-12-2016 7:21 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1479
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 58 of 64 (789257)
08-12-2016 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by NoNukes
08-11-2016 9:47 AM


Re: Oral presentation
No, he didn't. At all. I do know that life isn't poofed into existence.

I can look at myself. I am the product of a "sperm" from my father and an "egg" from my mother. I wasn't poofed into existence. All those boil down to would be called chemical reactions. I'm a result of chemical reactions. So, I do know that life isn't poofed into existence. No Spooks involved.

What's his evidence that life can be poofed into existence?

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by NoNukes, posted 08-11-2016 9:47 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Genomicus, posted 08-12-2016 9:04 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 781
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 59 of 64 (789262)
08-12-2016 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Pressie
08-12-2016 7:21 AM


Re: Oral presentation
I do know that life isn't poofed into existence.

C'mon, Pressie. You're looking for an argument where there isn't one. For starters, you didn't ask if life is poofed into existence. You asked if he thought life was poofed into existence. That nuance may be subtle, but it matters, because it makes your whole analogy kinda tangential.

And just read his freakin' paper. I'm guessing you have what it takes to grasp at least some of it. His model is based on the adsorption of water molecules on polypeptide surfaces. No poofing involved. Case closed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Pressie, posted 08-12-2016 7:21 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Vladimir Matveev, posted 08-12-2016 11:51 PM Genomicus has responded

  
Vladimir Matveev
Junior Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 25
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Joined: 11-08-2015


Message 60 of 64 (789305)
08-12-2016 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Genomicus
08-12-2016 9:04 AM


Re: Oral presentation
His model is based on the adsorption of water molecules on polypeptide surfaces. No poofing involved.

Genomics, please give us a model which is proved as the cradle of life.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Genomicus, posted 08-12-2016 9:04 AM Genomicus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Genomicus, posted 08-21-2016 4:21 PM Vladimir Matveev has responded

    
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