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Author | Topic: So-Called "Persecution Against Christians": | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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The evangelicals haven't realized that yet, so please be careful in how hard you guys force them. Poor snowflakes. If I lived in an area dominated with them, I'll just spend *my* life in fear and in hiding without any support. That's a much better solution, right? We wouldn't want to upset bullies, so the bullied should just live with it until they kill themselves. Yay, isn't it great to live in a world were bullies have no consequences because the police and the courts are also bullies accountable to no-one but themselves.
And if you're a random atheist reading this thinking: "Fuck 'em, they're wrong and we're right and the law is the appropriate method.", as a theist I say to you: Congratulations, you are beating up a toddler. Oh sure, they're toddlers. And as a queer person living in their community being spat at and denied employment I have all the power. Oh wait *they* have the power in this relationship. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
and if we are put in a position requiring us to do something personally that legitimizes it we will refuse and be prosecuted by the law Professionally, not personally.
how that makes us the bully is beyond me. Everything else is irrelevant. Its the bit where you enjoy the benefits of operating a public business but deliberately exclude members of a group that is regularly attacked and ostracized for doing nothing harmful to you and hope that a community of like minded people will support you in your tactics of exclusion which increases the probability of people engaging in self harm or suicide. That bit.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Marriage is clearly defined in the Bible as a man and a woman, and homosexuality is clearly defined as a sin, not a legitimate "lifestyle." And just as clearly, it is not possible to divorce since you cannot pull apart something God has put together.
You are not allowed to define another person's reading of the Bible Exactly. So why do you?
You are not allowed to define another person's reading of the Bible or another's conscience, sorry. And you are not allowed to open a business and refuse to provide services you provide everyone else to certain groups, sorry.
Marriage is clearly defined in the Bible as a man and a woman A marriage is clearly defined in the United States of America as being between two people. You are living in the USA and not the Bible, right?
In any case you will find that the more Christian businesses are challenged to do something special or personal that validates gay marriage the more Christians will have to refuse and be punished for it. Well sure, and those that call themselves Chrisitians that refuse black people or Jews or Satanists or Muslims will be punished just as Muslims that refuse Christians or Jews or black people or Satanists or homosexuals or Christians. Hardly persecution. They could just, you know, adjust their business to accommodate changes in the law like every other business must or face sanction.
Your thinking they are wrong carries no more weight than the Catholics thinking the Protestants wrong who refused to accept papal law and chose torture and death instead. True, but you thinking the law is wrong carries no more weight than that either. You are subject to the law and your religion should give you no special exemptions be you True Christian or Catholic or Muslim Jew or Satanist.
Of course calling us evil will justify whatever your group want to do to us too quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: Well I suppose you'd know, Christians wrote the book on calling people evil to justify treating them like shit. Like when Jesus refused to have anything to do with the sinful woman, right?
And how childish of you to pretend I want to harm you in any way. Whether you want it or not, you and the group you identify with, have. Either through actual actions, or supporting those who take those actions with money, words or votes.
I'm called to die for my beliefs and bless my enemies. I don't see much of it. I see a lot of Christians condemning their enemies with bitter and hateful words, denying them employment, housing, medical care and other services. Why not bless those homosexuals who have secured a government licence to marry one another? You don't have to believe God is bringing them together in holy matrimony to do that.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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That's ridiculous. Which is why we ridicule you for it.
It would be so much easier not to fight it. Sure, I could just 'take' being bullied but I find that just invites more bullying. So I'm more or less obliged to make the effort to fight it.
It takes courage to stand up to a law like this one and we are the ones who suffer from it, not you. Well sure. It takes courage to stand up to laws against murder too, but the murderer who goes to prison suffers less than their victims and their victims families. Likewise, being sued and going out of business is better than losing your family and your home and your job and your life. So no, the homosexual community has suffered more from the bullies than the bullies have faced legal consequences for their bullying.
Nobody's enjoying excluding people, just don't ask us to validate gay marriage, we're open to anything else you want. I don't need or want your validation and people are being sued for failing to validate things. A few people are being sued for refusing operating a public business that refuses to provide services to certain bullied people.
You don't have to go to Christians for your gay wedding If I live in a community of 70% Christians there is a 70% chance any one of the service providers for a gay marriage is a Christian. I don't ask, but if I have a flower arranger, a photographer, a cake maker and a caterer and...all the other services typically required for a wedding - the chances are that one of them will be Christian. Asking homosexuals to go out of their way to avoid Christians is pushing an unfair burden onto a group that is already suffering under unfair burdens. This would be bullying.
but you want to get even with us I can't and don't want to deny you medical care, housing public services and employment. I just want you to suffer consequences if you do it to me.
because we represent all the pain you've experienced. Caused the pain. That's why they have standing to sue.
Why, I don't know. Because the actions we are suing you for are harmful.
We aren't the only group that can't support gay marriage, orthodox Jews can't and neither can Muslims. They also run bakeries, make wedding cakes, arrange flowers and do photography. So do atheists. I'll sue them if they refuse me service too. But there are less of them, so it's less likely anyone will run into this problem.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
By rights we should not provide wedding services to polygamists or divorced people either, but if you keep the situation to yourself that conflict of conscience wouldn't become a problem. Odd that the Catholics generally bother doing it but Protestants prefer don't ask, don't tell policies. Almost like they want us to be silent. Why silence us?
Sorry, but we will deny service for any purpose condemned by God Sorry, but if you do this, you'll get sued.
And it's we who suffer for this The victims of your bullying suffer more.
Go ahead persecute us. I don't want to and I am not so doing. Suing someone for breaching business regulations is not persecution, denying someone service is persecution.
You've been waiting for years to "get even," haven't you? I'll take a small measure of justice, but it's not really possible or desired to get even.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I meant that it would be easier for us Christians not to fight it, but just go along to get along. I know what you meant, I was turning it around on purpose. Just because something is difficult doesn't make it right and it doesn't make you brave or worthy for doing the work to oppress others even as laws are passed to inhibit you.
Resisting the law costs us. Yes, it costs all lawbreakers. THAT'S THE POINT. The reason the laws exist, is because True Christian behaviour costs US and you won't even admit it!
Of course if YOU insist on fighting us on the basis of the new law, suing us etc., We've been fighting for ages Faith, because our livelihoods and lives depended on it. You only seem to care so much because you are finally starting to lose (don't worry though, Christians find lots of ways to be lawfully shitty to homosexuals still).
suing us etc., For damages you caused us. You just don't, nay can't, get it.
it will also be the Christians who suffer. Well the True Christians are dying off faster than they are being replaced so it won't be for long. Homosexuals have been suffering for the entire history of your nation, much worse than a few people getting sued. They'd be humiliated and denied healthcare and jobs and housing. Those are more important than providing wedding services.
Those who share the biblical view I'm talking about will not give in so you can sue us and drive us out of business to your heart's content. Thanks, we will. Enjoy revelling in the self inflicted martyrdom. But don't think we're the bullies when you are the one causing damages and getting sued for it. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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Homosexual acts break GOD's law, we're only breaking a human law that itself violates God's law. Whether or not it breaks God's law is up to God and acting homosexuals should only be answerable to God, not to you and bakers. Breaking human laws makes you answerable to humans and God, since the President that signed that law was put into place by God.
I'm quite aware that you suffer from all this, but that doesn't make you right about the legal situation. My suffering doesn't, the Constitition dictates that I'm right about the legal situation.
I grant that you are in a very difficult position. I don't know what the solution is, but punishing God isn't going to help you in the end. I'm not punishing God. I *can't* punish God. God may punish me, but that's business between me and Him and is absolutely nothing to do with you. Your judgement on this matter is irrelevant. For God does not show favouritism.
It costs a lot for a homosexual to convert to Christ, and that is the only solution I know of for your dilemma. I'm not a homosexual and I married a woman, so I guess I'm a little more safe, eh?
Otherwise once you have legal power you can punish us to a pulp, maybe mitigate some of your suffering that way, but God's people are not going to go away. The demographics disagree. Most people that agree with you are your age, and becoming less and less relevant to the legislature who are increasingly rejecting your perspective. The young 'ens are leaving the faith entirely in droves, and those that stay are increasingly rejecting the 'homosexuals should be treated poorly' gospel.
This is a supernatural thing and the more Christians suffer in the world the more the tribe grows. I guess God's power is failing then.
Or maybe the Rapture will occur soon and we'll be out of your life for good anyway. *fingers crossed*
I found out recently that homosexual acts are the only sin described in the Old Testament books of the Law that are called "abominations." Not heterosexual adultery, not murder, none of the others, even sins punishable by death. You found recently? Presumably someone told you, rather than you know, reading the damned thing.
quote: Lev 7, KJV
quote: {most animals, then} Deu 7, KJV
quote: Deu 12, KJV
quote: Deu 17, KJV
quote: Deu 17 KJV
quote: Levi 18, KJV.
quote: Lev 19, KJV
quote: Psa 14 and 53, KJV
quote: Deu 18, KJV
quote: Deu 23, KJV
quote: Deu 24., KJV
quote: Deu 25, KJV
quote: Deu 27, KJV
quote: Pro 3, KJV
quote: Pro 6, KJV
quote: Pro 8, KJV
quote: Pro 11, KJV
quote: Pro 11, KJV
quote: Pro 12, KJV
quote: Pro 15. KJV
quote: Pro 16, KJV
quote: Pro 16, KJV
quote: Pro 17, KJV
quote: Isa 1, KJV So yeah.
Not heterosexual adultery, Lechery and lust is an abomination. Lying with your neighbours wife is an abomination. Try again.
not murder Unless murder is NOT WICKED, you are wrong again.
That's a very severe judgment. As severe as it is for bringing a lobster to church, fraud, lying, lust, laziness....
Otherwise the term "abomination" is usually reserved for idolatries that involve demons. Wrong.
It makes me wonder if there is a demonic element in homosexuality. I wonder if there is a demonic element to your ignoring God's word and promulgating lies about it. Oh wait, that's an abomination too. Welcome to the club, Faith.
Some elements in the LGBT arena involve feelings that amount to obsessions, like that feeling of HAVING to cross-dress to get relief from some kind of psychgological pressure. Like lecherously grabbing women by the pussy, or lying about lecherously grabbing women by the pussy. You can believe what you like, but when you insist that because there is a 'demon influence' in my clothing preferences I should be refused a drink by a bartender, lifesaving intervention from a doctor.....then your wickedness is harming me and you are being a bully and persecuting me. If I retaliate by asking a duly elected or appointed official to determine how this damage can be compensated financially, I am not persecuting you. Indeed if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. Or whinge and complain and claim martyrdom and persecution for your wicked acts and your victimising others. Whatever floats your boat. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I did think you said you were homosexual and some things you said implied your "wife" was a man. Sorry if I got that wrong. I'm bisexual, as is my wife. That's probably what confused you.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
So your wife is a bisexual woman and not a bisexual man? Correct.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
EvC takes the cake when it comes to treating other opinions as evil trash You just spent a long time saying things like
quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: Which is saying that I AM EVIL TRASH. You didn't even bother to tie it into the topic of Christian persecution, while reinforcing and justifying all the persecution queer-folk have suffered. You are an awful person who is contributing to the harmful bullying, pain and suffering we have on this earth. For all your talk of Romans 1, you neglected Paul's admonishment in Romans 2 regarding judging others. You will be judged as harshly as those that you judge, remember that.
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