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Author | Topic: So-Called "Persecution Against Christians": | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
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I found out recently that homosexual acts are the only sin described in the Old Testament books of the Law that are called "abominations." There are number of falsehoods in your description of what the Bible says, but I'll just pick on this easy one. From Proverbs:
quote: Of course I did not know what I would find when I checked the Bible. But instead of making claims, I looked this up. It did take several minutes. Of course, one might claim that the word abomination used in the KJV is not correct. If one follows that line of reasoning, then one finds the word translated as abomination with respect to homosexuality used 103 times in the Bible. It applies to things like usury, and oppressing the needy (see Ezekiel 18:6-13) and idolatry. As a final examples Genesis 43:32 states that eating with Israelites is an abomination for Egyptians.Deut. 25:15-16 states that using uncalibrated weights in commerce is an abomination. Yes it does apply to things like witchcraft, idolatry, but what you "recently found out" once again turns out to be completely wrong. Lots of things, some quite mundane, and some profane all turn out to be abominations as described in the Bible using the exact same terms used to describe homosexuality. ABE: I posted this before I saw Modulus post and your response. But given that you characterized all of his cites as not being personal sins, I think my addition is still relevant. Even your attempted correction is just plain wrong. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Oh well, I should have known. I did say the Books of the Law, meaning the books of Moses. I didn't mention the passage in Proverbs because it's in a different category. Right. And your excuse for dismissing the passages I pointed to in Genesis would be...
What I said still stands. Homosexuality is treated as a special personal sin in the context of the Law. No other sexual sin, and there are lots of them, is called by that term. First, you only designated personal versus sins against God (demon stuff and perhaps witchcraft, so are changing things here. Secondly, now that you've characterized it as a sexual sin and restricted the analysis to a portion of the Bible and confined it to sexual things, you've pretty much destroyed your argument about homosexuality special in some way. Secondly, you are wrong about it being uniquely applied to sexual sins. See Ezekial 22. Now you can call that proclamation, "Not law" if you want. But Ezekiel is every bit as much the word of God as the Torah. Unless your claim is that God did not really say what is written in Ez. Finally, If you want to insist on sexual sin in the Torah, I would point to Deuteronomy 24:2-4 which deals with illicit homosexual marriages that are abomination. Your argument is complete BS. I have no doubt that you are sincere, but your sincerity is not Biblical. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
abe; And "abomination" is ALWAYS the term for demonic religious practices, idolatries, witchcraft etc. Which is neither disputed nor the point at all. Abomination is also a term used in the Bible to describe cheating folks at the butcher shop, and lending money and requiring interest, and some bad heterosexual marriage practices. What is clear is that abomination is not a term exclusive applied to homosexuality and demonic religious practices. We can find examples in Genesis, Deuteronomy, Ezekiel and others part of the Bible including the Torah. In order to make some kind of exclusive statement, you have to apply so many disclaimers as to make the term "exclusive" meaningless. Again, the singling out of homosexuality as some kind of special sin that you are required to sanction people for while tolerantly looking the other way for other sins is not Biblical even if some Bible reading folks act as if it is. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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The problem with freeing a woman slave is that she will become prey to others so it is actually protecting her to keep her in her position. Selling her is another protection. Some people can justify just about anything. If you actually believe that there is no option to protect a former slave other than keeping her in slavery... well, just wow. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Excerpt from the verse in question:
quote: Your claim:
Faith writes: The problem with freeing a woman slave is that she will become prey to others so it is actually protecting her to keep her in her position. Selling her is another protection. Let's examine your defense of the Bible. Your claim here is that keeping the woman in slavery is for the woman's protection. Yet there are circumstances here where we keep a freed man's wife and children away from her husband. Exactly whose benefit is that for? How is it protecting the woman to keep her away from her husband? And if that is a benefit, how come we don't do it on some occasions? Clearly your answer does not fit the facts.
And you have no sense at all of the mentality of ancient cultures. Actually I do. Which means that when I read practices based on those mentalities, I cannot assume that I am being directed to treat 21st century folk in accordance with that same mentality. In fact, of the folks in this discussion, only you advocate hateful treatment of your fellow man based on your own prejudice backed by demonstrably bad Bible interpretation. "Inactive Member" Typical. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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