Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Most US Christians Heretics, Evangelicals Hereticalest
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2424
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 4 of 26 (792665)
10-12-2016 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dr Adequate
10-12-2016 12:45 PM


Taking a plunge into my 4th thread in the last 60 days (fireworks anybody?)
The link (and related links) talks about 2 different issues when it laments ignorance among evangelicals.
The doctrines from creeds (essentially the Church Councils from 325 to 787 A.D) and the Bible itself.
quote:
Evangelical writer Eric Metaxas remarked on BreakPoint last week that if Americans took a theology exam, their only hope of passing would be if God graded on a curve. He’s right. In knowing both the content of the Bible and the doctrinal foundations of Christianity, we Americans aren’t just at the bottom of our class. We are, as Ross Douthat argues in his book, Bad Religion, a nation of heretics.
A survey of 3,000 people conducted by LifeWay Research and commissioned by Ligonier Ministries found that although Americans still overwhelmingly identify as Christian, startling percentages of the nation embrace ancient errors condemned by all major Christian traditions. These are not minor points of doctrine, but core ideas that define Christianity itself
....
Their orthodoxyand consistencyended there. More than half went on to indicate that Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God, a heresy known as Arianism, which the Council of Nicaea condemned in 325 A.D.
Of course, most of these accidental blasphemers aren’t preparing to revise the resulting Nicene Creed and preach a creaturely Christ. Rather, bizarre contradictions like this illustrate how many Americans don’t understand or even care what the Trinity means (although they say they believe in it, likely out of habits learned growing up in church).
....
For those who don’t profess Christianity, gaining a basic understanding of the creeds and Scriptures of the religion that built our civilization isn’t a bad idea, either.
Survey Finds Most American Christians Are Actually Heretics
Then a link in the thread lead here.
quote:
One thing is certain: Americans love the Bible. A recent report from The American Bible Society and Barna Group finds that two-thirds of the nation believe the Bible contains everything a person needs to know in order to live a meaningful life. And a vast majority of folks in this country still consider themselves Christians. But just how deep does their Christianity run?
Not very, according to the results of a survey released late last month by LifeWay Research. The survey, commissioned by Ligonier Ministries, asked 3,000 participants a set of 47 questions about foundational Christian beliefs. Many of the answers revealed a mishmash of heresy and confusion about Christianity’s most basic doctrines.
....
It’s not just the departures from these historic doctrines that should concern us, but the contradictory answers. It shows not only that Americans in general and evangelicals in particular have the wrong answers on basic Christian doctrines, but that they don’t really understand the concept of doctrine itself.
Page not found - Breakpoint
2 areas of ignorance.
First.
They don't understand that the Roman Empire with the papacy (and the Byzantine Empire) determined what they were supposed to believe - through the various councils that Protestants and Catholics (as well as eastern Orthodox) hold everyone to.
Second
They also don't understand the various diverse books of the Bible and the source of each. The evangelical fundamentalists see it more of an issue of "ignorance of the (entire) Bible", since one spurious document (forged in the name of John or Paul) can be quote mined to superimpose it's definition or description of something on all of the message of Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc.
One shouldn't ever confuse the Church Councils with the teachings of Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, etc.(aside from the Apostolic Council of Acts 15 which was lead by James the brother of Jesus, but that one is ignored all the time anyway, Nicea is seen as the "first one" (or first consequential or important one) it seems.SIDE NOTE Catholics argue that Peter lead it), but the issue of Biblical illiteracy is a real interesting issue. Bart Ehrman commented on his (overwhelmingly/entirely Christian)students on a DVD I have, and it was interesting.
quote:
Jesus and His First Followers: What Current Archaeology and Biblical Research Are Telling Us
2005 Biblical Archaeology Society, Washington D.C.
[3rd hour long lecture titled:]
Discoveries of New Gospels: Te Case of the Gospel of Thomas
By Bart D. Ehrman
How many of you have read the Da Vinci code? All right, o.k. So, I started my class this last year, I teach this large class at Chapel Hill that has, you know, 350 students in it and it’s on the New Testament. So I started off my class this year doing something that I’m not sure is legal in a state university but I did it anyway. I started out by asking my students, I asked How many in here would agree with the proposition that the Bible is the inspired word of God? Voom! The entire room raises it’s hand. I said All right, so how many of you read The Da Vinci Code? Voom! [entire room]. Is that right? How many of you read the entire Bible cover to cover? Scattered hands. I said All right, now I’m not telling you that God wrote the Bible but that’s what you’re telling me. You’re willing to read a book by Dan Brown. I mean if God wrote a book, wouldn’t you want to see what he had to say? It’s a very strange [situation]
One almost doesn't know where to begin.
Fundamentalist preachers just love seeing surveys (and comments like the one from Ehrman) like this though. It causes them (preachers and evangelists) to have a cause to "teach people the truth about our great" religion "that we have failed to learn properly about" and to speak ever more boldly in the (what they claim to be the)name of Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc. even more rigorously.
I see it as an evidence of people being shoehorned into compliance by a theologically imposed set of creeds and doctrines - held up by the state - for the last 2000 years, which never would have been possible if people could think for themselves. Not that people think too much or too hard (that's obvious). But there would clearly be diverse opinion, and a very diverse "Christianity" unlike what we have now.
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-12-2016 12:45 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2424
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 17 of 26 (792850)
10-14-2016 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Theodoric
10-13-2016 10:36 AM


Re: More Questions
quote:
Not in Spanish speaking countries. The week starts on Monday and ends on Sunday.
Interestingly, among the Spanish folk (native Texans, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, etc.) I have talked to (I have talked to as many of them as I have talked to non-Hispanic whites), they (if not devout Catholics) commonly are amazed that their word for Saturday is Sabado (sp? or Sabato or something like it), yet worship is on Sunday (Culto Domingo or something). They aren't 7th day Adventists, but they see it as really fishy. They are familiar with the Council of Nicaea in large numbers. (especially after the Da Vinci Code but also before). They are the ones that bring it up (always) as I never really cared about the issue (much).
The issue I most talk about (James the brother of Jesus) was one that caused me to notice that he isn't "James" in any language other than English (?). He is Hacobo (sp?) as in English Jacob in Spanish. Our early conversations on "James" caused people to respond (after my rant), "o.k. but isn't the name of Jesus' brother name "Jacob"?
It is helpful to talk to those who aren't part of the English orbit.
Even more helpful to talk to those outside of the western orbit.
The idea that the views of Arius (or other non Orthodox views of Jesus and God) weren't part of any tradition is a joke (as the OP's link says). Didn't Persian missionaries convert the Goths to Arian like views (I'm not sure)? The Arian Goths held Rome till Justinian wiped them out around 530-540 A.D. ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Theodoric, posted 10-13-2016 10:36 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by dwise1, posted 10-16-2016 2:40 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied
 Message 20 by Theodoric, posted 10-16-2016 10:20 AM LamarkNewAge has replied
 Message 23 by caffeine, posted 10-16-2016 3:52 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2424
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 26 of 26 (793063)
10-19-2016 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Theodoric
10-16-2016 10:20 AM


James and his name
[quote] The issue I most talk about (James the brother of Jesus) was one that caused me to notice that he isn't "James" in any language other than English (?). He is Hacobo (sp?) as in English Jacob in Spanish. Our early conversations on "James" caused people to respond (after my rant), "o.k. but isn't the name of Jesus' brother name "Jacob"? [quote]
quote:
Not sure where would get this idea from. James in spanish is Diego. From which we get Santiago.
How Is Diego the Spanish Name for James?
I'm from New York so I got that part conflated/confused with other conversations with endless other people of foreign origin.
Thanks for the information.
I have good conversations here in nebraska too.
I just had a talk with a Yazidi friend here in Nebraska, and I was attempting to explain reincarnation to him. We were having difficulty communicating. He knew Arabic as a second language much much better than he knew English. I didn't know too many Arabic words (though he thought I knew them pretty good as many easterners have told me). It ended up that he overheard me saying (in English to somebody else) "he doesn't know what reincarnation means". He responded "I know what reincarnation means" in perfect English. He heard my explanation and understood it, infact his religion believes in it.
I struggled to explain the "wise men" of Matthew 2 to him. We couldn't communicate in words we each knew. I kept trying to speak Arabic (which I know little of)but everything came out as Hebrew (he doesn't undertand Hebrew at all amazingly, while I seem to be able to speak it somewhat well). (He knows about the Magi an Zoroastrians very well)
I talk to many people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Theodoric, posted 10-16-2016 10:20 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024