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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
jar
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Posts: 30355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 1786 of 2044 (827842)
02-02-2018 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1785 by Stile
02-02-2018 10:30 AM


Re: The Nunes Memo
The impact is that what is being released is "A memo from The House Intelligence Committee" and not simply as the opinion of one Congressman.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
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Posts: 19484
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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(2)
Message 1787 of 2044 (827852)
02-02-2018 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1782 by Percy
02-02-2018 9:41 AM


The Nunes Memo Released
available here

quote:





Expect the Democrat memo to be leaked now that this information is declassified.

That must be a different Steele dossier than the one commissioned by Republicans on primary candidate Trump ...

Sigh.

Edited by RAZD, : ...

Edited by RAZD, : ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
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PaulK
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Posts: 13885
Joined: 01-10-2003
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(1)
Message 1788 of 2044 (827853)
02-02-2018 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1787 by RAZD
02-02-2018 2:41 PM


Re: The Nunes Memo Released
You know, if Steele believed the information in the dossier he might well be “passionate that Donald Trump not be elected”....
This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
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Posts: 19484
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 1789 of 2044 (827854)
02-02-2018 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1787 by RAZD
02-02-2018 2:41 PM


Re: The Nunes Memo Released -- nothingburger.
So aside from the fact the dossier originated with republican backing/funding, aside from the fact that there is a second memo that Mueller is reviewing that covers the same material, AND given that Page is in the process of plea bargaining with Mueller ...

There is nothing there.

Regarding the second memo

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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ramoss
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Posts: 3074
Joined: 08-11-2004


(3)
Message 1790 of 2044 (827856)
02-02-2018 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1786 by jar
02-02-2018 10:33 AM


Re: The Nunes Memo
Several points.

None of the democrats contributed to it.

None of the democrats voted for it's release.

There was a 10 page rebuttal to it, that the Republican majority on that committee won't allow to be released.

Nunes modified the memo after it was voted on before sending it to the white house.

There is nothing in the memo that wasn't implied or said by Republicans for the last few months anyway.

If the republicans had any kind of substantial evidence of wrong doing in the FBI, they would be DOING something about it, rather than making a huge production about the memo as a publicity stunt. This is a fine example of gas lighting.


This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 17166
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1791 of 2044 (827858)
02-02-2018 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1785 by Stile
02-02-2018 10:30 AM


Re: The Nunes Memo
Stile writes:

But it's actually from The House Intelligence Committee - who "just so happens" to have a bunch of Republicans in it.

The Republicans have a majority in the House of Representatives, so this means they completely control the chamber. The Speaker of the House is a Republican (he controls the flow of legislation, which gives him a lot of power since if he doesn't like a bill then it won't come to the floor for debate or won't be scheduled for a vote), the House Majority Leader is a Republican, the chairman of every single committee is a Republican (I checked, see List of current United States House of Representatives committees - bills originate in committee), and I'd be surprised if Republicans don't outnumber Democrats in every single committee, though I couldn't confirm that.

Should the Democrats succeed in achieving a majority in the House in the 2018 elections then this situation would completely reverse. Given Democrat antipathy for Trump, and given Trump's inability to compromise and his schizophrenic inconsistency, that might mean very little legislation emerges from Congress for a couple years.

There aren't actually that many committees (around 20), but they're divided into many subcommittees. Just like in committees, I would think that Republicans also outnumber Democrats in every subcommittee, but it's another thing I couldn't confirm. The House Intelligence Committee is definitely a committee, not a subcommittee.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 17166
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 1792 of 2044 (827859)
02-02-2018 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1789 by RAZD
02-02-2018 3:21 PM


Re: The Nunes Memo Released -- nothingburger.
RAZD writes:

So aside from the fact the dossier originated with Republican backing/funding,...

During the 2016 primaries Fusion GPS was contracted by a conservative website to investigate Trump. When the primaries concluded then the contract ended, at which point the Clinton campaign contracted Fusion GPS to continue to investigate Trump, and it was only at that point that Fusion GPS contracted Christopher Steele to carry out some of the investigative work. This is why the Republicans feel it's legitimate to blame the Steele dossier on the Clinton campaign.

I don't believe anything in the Steele dossier has been shown untrue. Some of its contents are unconfirmed, especially the most salacious items, but not shown untrue.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 7430
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 1793 of 2044 (827861)
02-02-2018 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1788 by PaulK
02-02-2018 3:16 PM


Re: The Nunes Memo Released
PaulK writes:

You know, if Steele believed the information in the dossier he might well be “passionate that Donald Trump not be elected”....

It's also a bit hypocritical. Their argument is that the dossier shouldn't be believed because it came from the Democracts, so it is biased simply due to the fact it comes from a partisan political party. They then turn around and claim that this memo should be believed, and yet it came from a partisan political party. Their own argument against the dossier also refutes their own memo.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


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Percy
Member
Posts: 17166
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 1794 of 2044 (827865)
02-02-2018 6:28 PM


Re: The Nunes Memo Released
Here are a few comments by members of Congress about the release of the Nunes memo.

Senator John McCain (R-AZ):

quote:
In 2016, the Russian government engaged in an elaborate plot to interfere in an American election and undermine our democracy. Russia employed the same tactics it has used to influence elections around the world, from France and Germany to Ukraine, Montenegro, and beyond. Putin’s regime launched cyberattacks and spread disinformation with the goal of sowing chaos and weakening faith in our institutions. And while we have no evidence that these efforts affected the outcome of our election, I fear they succeeded in fueling political discord and dividing us from one another.

The latest attacks on the FBI and Department of Justice serve no American interests – no party’s, no president’s, only Putin’s. The American people deserve to know all of the facts surrounding Russia’s ongoing efforts to subvert our democracy, which is why Special Counsel Mueller’s investigation must proceed unimpeded. Our nation’s elected officials, including the president, must stop looking at this investigation through the warped lens of politics and manufacturing partisan sideshows. If we continue to undermine our own rule of law, we are doing Putin’s job for him.


Jeff Flake (R-AZ):

quote:
President Trump should heed the warnings of the Justice Department and FBI, and reverse his reported decision to defy longstanding policies regarding the disclosure of classified information," they wrote. "The president’s apparent willingness to release this memo risks undermining U.S. intelligence-gathering efforts, politicizing Congress’ oversight role, and eroding confidence in our institutions of government.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) sent a letter to House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) requesting that David Nunes (R-CA), House Intelligence Committee Chairmen, be removed from his position:

quote:
February 1, 2018
The Honorable Paul Ryan
Speaker of the House
H-232, United States Capitol
Washington, D.C. 20515

The decision of Chairman Nunes and House Republicans to release a bogus memo has taken the GOP’s cover-up campaign to a new, completely unacceptable extreme.

Both the DOJ and FBI oppose releasing the Nunes memo. As the Department of Justice warned, the public release of the memo would be an “unprecedented action” and “extraordinarily reckless.” The FBI also expressed that the agency has “grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo’s accuracy.”

It has now come to our attention that Congressman Nunes deliberately and materially altered the contents of the memo since it was voted on by the House Republicans. This action is not only dangerous, it is illegitimate, and violates House rules.

From the start, Congressman Nunes has disgraced the House Intelligence Committee. Since pledging to recuse himself from the Trump-Russia investigation, Congressman Nunes has abused his position to launch a highly unethical and dangerous cover-up campaign for the White House.

Congressman Nunes’ deliberately dishonest actions make him unfit to serve as Chairman, and he must be removed immediately from this position.

House Republicans’ pattern of obstruction and cover-up to hide the truth about the Trump-Russia scandal represents a threat to our intelligence and our national security. The GOP has led a partisan effort to distort intelligence and discredit the U.S. law enforcement and intelligence communities.

It is long overdue that you, as Speaker, put an end to this charade and hold Congressman Nunes and all Congressional Republicans accountable to the oath they have taken to support and defend the Constitution, and protect the American people.

The integrity of the House is at stake. We look forward to your immediate action on this subject.

sincerely,

NANCY PELOSI
Democratic Leader


--Percy


    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10602
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1795 of 2044 (827867)
02-02-2018 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1791 by Percy
02-02-2018 4:40 PM


Re: The Nunes Memo
and I'd be surprised if Republicans don't outnumber Democrats in every single committee, though I couldn't confirm that.

Generally, the party ratio is subcommittees is as close as possible to the same as it is in the committee. Membership is controlled by the committee which in turn is always dominated by the majority party, and there is no way they would allow the minority party to control the subcommittee.

What we can say is that Republicans chair every single committee. The senior Democrat on the committee is the "ranking member" and all of the ranking members are Democrats. It would be quite surprising if the membership of any committee was not from the majority party.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1791 by Percy, posted 02-02-2018 4:40 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17166
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 1796 of 2044 (827872)
02-03-2018 8:57 AM


Nuclear Policy Reversed
A small part of the Trump State of the Nation speech addressed updating and expanding our nuclear capabilities. Yesterday, a sad day in more way then one, the Pentagon announced its plans: Pentagon unveils new nuclear weapons strategy, ending Obama-era push to reduce U.S. arsenal

In the article Defense Secretary Jim Mattis is quoted as saying that the changes reflect a need to “look reality in the eye” and “see the world as it is, not as we wish it to be.”

This is so misguided. We have already looked reality in the eye, and that reality is that nuclear war is unthinkable. That hasn't changed. Trump is transforming the United States into the biggest and most serious world threat. We know that a nuclear attack on Russia would bring a response, the result destroying both countries and spreading dangerous nuclear fallout the world over, so nuclear war on that scale is unthinkable. Even the possibility of a nuclear war with Korea, which hardly requires an expansion of our nuclear capabilities, is unthinkable since it would kill millions of civilians.

Here's to hoping that the 2018 and 2020 elections bring changes in our elected government that can return us to a leadership position in reducing nuclear arsenals and the threat of nuclear war.

--Percy


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19484
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 1797 of 2044 (827874)
02-03-2018 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1792 by Percy
02-02-2018 4:54 PM


Re: The Nunes Memo Released -- nothingburger.
Here's more on the memo and what it means:

quote:
Ex-CIA officer just threw the memo back in Trump and Nunes’s face in epic takedown [WATCH]

A prominent former CIA intelligence officer, however, has a very different take on the memo. Ned Price, who once served as the spokesperson for the National Security Council, thinks that the contents of the memo do much more to bolster the case against Trump than Nunes intended.

Appearing on “MSNBC Live,” Price told host Katy Tur, “From my experience at the CIA, from working closely with the FBI over the years, I can say categorically that there is not a single source within our intelligence or law enforcement community that is not, in some ways, biased,” Price said on MSNBC Friday.

“It’s not that you try to wave a magic wand and to remove an individual’s biases. You account for them, you vet a source, compare his or her information to what you already know.”

“And this Nunes memo does something very important, it calls Christopher Steele a longtime, longstanding source of the FBI,” Price added. “The FBI does not have longstanding sources who routinely lie to them, who routinely peddle false information. So I think that answers the questions about the biases."

That wasn’t all. Price thinks Democrats should be thanking Rep. Nunes for making the memo public because it dismantles a key talking point the president and his allies have been trying to advance, namely that the FISA warrant on former Trump campaign operative Carter Page was issued because of the Steele Dossier.

“But Katy, there’s a bigger issue here, and I don’t know if Groundhog Day is appropriate to exchange gifts, but Democrats should be showering gifts on Devin Nunes for this memo because it disproves one of the key talking points, namely that the Steele Dossier was the predicate to launch the investigation into Donald Trump in the first place,” Price explained.


And now we have Nunes and other republicans colluding and lying to obstruct justice.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10602
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1798 of 2044 (827877)
02-03-2018 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1796 by Percy
02-03-2018 8:57 AM


Re: Nuclear Policy Reversed.. Insanity is the order of the day
A small part of the Trump State of the Nation speech addressed updating and expanding our nuclear capabilities. Yesterday, a sad day in more way then one, the Pentagon announced its plans: Pentagon unveils new nuclear weapons strategy, ending Obama-era push to reduce U.S. arsenal

Is this really what Republicans believe is a good strategy? I understand that Trump's base has different priorities and ways of looking at the world than I do. But does anyone really believe this is a great idea? If so then I suspect I will never understand how folks think.

Even if you were one of the insane folks that believe nuking North Korea is a good idea, and I know there are people out there like that. What the '%$#@' are you going to use more nukes on? China?

You guys who couldn't stomach voting for Hilary. Feel better now?

Here's to hoping that the 2018 and 2020 elections bring changes in our elected government that can return us to a leadership position in reducing nuclear arsenals and the threat of nuclear war.

I think my avatar needs updating... It's running a little slow.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1796 by Percy, posted 02-03-2018 8:57 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19484
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 1799 of 2044 (827878)
02-03-2018 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1798 by NoNukes
02-03-2018 11:32 AM


Re: Nuclear Policy Reversed.. Insanity is the order of the day
I think my avatar needs updating... It's running a little slow.

The doomsday clock is not set at 2 minutes to midnight.

You guys who couldn't stomach voting for Hilary. Feel better now?

No. The fact remains that Hillary lost the campaign by failing in several key states, and I could have voted for Pat Paulson and it would not have changed that.

Any person who voted not-Hillary in a state that Hillary won did not contribute to her loss. Because the electoral college is not popular vote reflecting mechanism as long as the states have winner take all rules.

Stop blaming innocent people for her loss.

Is this really what Republicans believe is a good strategy? I understand that Trump's base has different priorities and ways of looking at the world than I do. But does anyone really believe this is a great idea? If so then I suspect I will never understand how folks think.

Considering that many are woefully under educated and gullible to shysters (political and religious), and likely have no clue about the destructive effect of nuclear bombs, both immediate and long term, and being xenophobic the likely just don't care.

Beware the power of united stupidity ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1798 by NoNukes, posted 02-03-2018 11:32 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1800 by NoNukes, posted 02-03-2018 12:12 PM RAZD has responded
 Message 1802 by Percy, posted 02-03-2018 3:07 PM RAZD has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10602
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 1800 of 2044 (827879)
02-03-2018 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1799 by RAZD
02-03-2018 11:59 AM


Re: Nuclear Policy Reversed.. Insanity is the order of the day
No. The fact remains that Hillary lost the campaign by failing in several key states, and I could have voted for Pat Paulson and it would not have changed that.

Yeah, I know. I acknowledged that point sometime in the past. Heck, you could have voted for Trump in your state without making a difference. I could have done that too.

But none of that excuses the justifications folks give for not voting for Hilary despite the meaninglessly of your vote. And those same justifications are also given in those states that did matter.

Considering that many are woefully under educated and gullible to shysters (political and religious), and likely have no clue about the destructive effect of nuclear bombs, both immediate and long term, and being xenophobic the likely just don't care

I imagine that most folks have some clue. But that knowledge has never stopped folks from believing that nuclear war is something we can win.

I am aware the official time is 2 before midnight. I am updating my avatar after lunch... Not sure what time I will put on it.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1799 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2018 11:59 AM RAZD has responded

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