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Author Topic:   R.C.Sprouls Teaching On Reformed Theology
jar
Member
Posts: 29918
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 106 of 113 (825687)
12-17-2017 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
12-17-2017 10:01 AM


Re: Is God Always Created By Humans? Implications....
Phat writes:

I can admit that humans likely make god out to be what they want Him to be and see Him as....but what bothers me about what you say is the total lack of belief that God actually exists and interacts with us.

Stop right there.

What I have said is I cannot think of anyway to determine if someone is communicating with a God.

I have never said that people cannot believe that God actually exists and interacts with them but no one has ever been able to explain how that is done.

The facts though are as I posted and you quoted.

jar writes:

The God character in the Bible is yet another example of contradictions and evolution found throughout the Bible.

The newer God found in Genesis 1 is characterized entirely differently than the much older God found in Genesis 2&3.

In the older stories the Hebrew God is but one of many Gods and in fact tied to a particular piece of real estate. That is why Namaan asked for two donkey loads of dirt from Israel.

In the New Testament God becomes an off stage voice, a classic Greek Chorus or Mira.

Each Bible story writer created the God that was appropriate to the story being told and the era and milieu they lived within.

Phat writes:

So are you basically saying that in all instances, humans created God?

How can it be otherwise?

Just as with past authors, people today can only describe the God character they imagine exists.

AbE:

Look at the Biblical evidence.

In Genesis 1 as well as Genesis 2&3 the God character is known only by his behavior, and the behavior of the two Gods is diametrically opposed.

In other parts God is an off stage voice, a burning bush, a hand writing on the wall, an unknown stranger met unexpectedly. Even the actual name of God is not spoken. In the New Testament the God is more like the God of Genesis 1 than the God of any of the other Old Testament books; but still simply an offstage voice or the sender of messengers or testers.

You are pretty much inline with all those past authors and facing much the same challenges.

Edited by jar, : see AbE


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 12-17-2017 10:01 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14117
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 107 of 113 (825729)
12-17-2017 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
12-17-2017 10:01 AM


Re: Is God Always Created By Humans? Implications....
Phat writes:

And if we were to honestly confront the storytellers of each era (through our magic time machine) and ask them to honestly admit that they were creating God, they would likely deny such an assertion...


If they were honest, they would at the very least have to acknowledge that they were embellishing. Otherwise, how do you account for the discrepancies?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 12-17-2017 10:01 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 12-17-2017 2:29 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10437
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 108 of 113 (825741)
12-17-2017 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by ringo
12-17-2017 2:01 PM


Re: Is God Always Created By Humans? Implications....
ringo writes:

If they were honest, they would at the very least have to acknowledge that they were embellishing.

Hmmm.
Embellish
make (a statement or story) more interesting or entertaining by adding extra details, especially ones that are not true.
"she had real difficulty telling the truth because she liked to embellish things"
synonyms: elaborate, embroider, expand on, exaggerate
"the legend was embellished in later retellings"

I would argue that they would say they were elaborating...and were sticking to the truth as they understood it. Perhaps exaggeration would be inevitable, but they would likely defend their integrity. For examle, jar and I disagree on the character of GOD. jar says GOD is complete. I say GOD is good. GODmay well have created the possibility of evil, but this fact alone does not make GOD evil.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by ringo, posted 12-17-2017 2:01 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by ringo, posted 12-17-2017 2:39 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14117
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 109 of 113 (825747)
12-17-2017 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Phat
12-17-2017 2:29 PM


Re: Is God Always Created By Humans? Implications....
Phat writes:

I would argue that they would say they were elaborating...and were sticking to the truth as they understood it. Perhaps exaggeration would be inevitable, but they would likely defend their integrity.


How do you account for the discrepancies?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 12-17-2017 2:29 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 12-18-2017 10:52 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10437
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 110 of 113 (825833)
12-18-2017 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by ringo
12-17-2017 2:39 PM


Re: Is God Always Created By Humans? Implications....
How do you account for the discrepancies?
Human nature. Incorrect information. Perhaps even cultural bias.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by ringo, posted 12-17-2017 2:39 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by ringo, posted 12-18-2017 10:58 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14117
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 111 of 113 (825837)
12-18-2017 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Phat
12-18-2017 10:52 AM


Re: Is God Always Created By Humans? Implications....
Phat writes:

Human nature. Incorrect information. Perhaps even cultural bias.


So, in other words, there's no reason to think they knew what they were talking about, even if they BELIEVED they were telling The Truth™.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 12-18-2017 10:52 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 12-18-2017 11:39 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10437
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 112 of 113 (825846)
12-18-2017 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by ringo
12-18-2017 10:58 AM


Re: Is God Always Created By Humans? Implications....
It starts with belief. Not with evidence. Thats why you never became a believer. You started with evidence.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by ringo, posted 12-18-2017 10:58 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by ringo, posted 12-18-2017 11:46 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14117
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 113 of 113 (825847)
12-18-2017 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Phat
12-18-2017 11:39 AM


Re: Is God Always Created By Humans? Implications....
Phat writes:

It starts with belief. Not with evidence. Thats why you never became a believer. You started with evidence.


What about when the evidence goes against the belief?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 12-18-2017 11:39 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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