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Author Topic:   Elites
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 16 of 31 (844136)
11-25-2018 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Straggler
11-24-2018 2:41 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
Straggler writes:

George Clooney - “I grew up in Kentucky. I sold insurance door to door. I sold ladies’ shoes. I worked at an all-night liquor store. I would buy suits that were too big and too long and cut the bottom of the pants off to make ties so I’d have a tie to go on job interviews. The idea that I’m somehow the ‘Hollywood elite’ and this guy who takes a shit in a gold toilet is somehow the man of the people is laughable.”
Is he right?


I'm gonna say no. It isn't where you've been that makes you an elite. It's where you are now. The guy who's selling insurance and ladies' shoes in Kentucky was not an elite. George Clooney the celebrity is.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Straggler, posted 11-24-2018 2:41 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 11-25-2018 2:51 PM ringo has responded
 Message 18 by Straggler, posted 11-25-2018 2:57 PM ringo has responded
 Message 21 by dwise1, posted 11-25-2018 4:11 PM ringo has responded
 Message 23 by caffeine, posted 11-26-2018 2:47 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11574
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 17 of 31 (844137)
11-25-2018 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
11-25-2018 2:34 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
It isn't where you've been that makes you an elite. It's where you are now. The guy who's selling insurance and ladies' shoes in Kentucky was not an elite. George Clooney the celebrity is.
Why? Just because he has money? That in and of itself is not a bad thing is it?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 2:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 2:58 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10267
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 18 of 31 (844142)
11-25-2018 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
11-25-2018 2:34 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
In relative terms I’d say George Clooney has more claim to be a ‘man of the people’ than Donald Trump does. Past experience has to count for something when compared to someone who has neither past nor present experience of ordinary life.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 2:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 3:00 PM Straggler has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 19 of 31 (844143)
11-25-2018 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
11-25-2018 2:51 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
Phat writes:

Why?


Because people listen to him. If he wasn't elite, he wouldn't even have been mentioned here.

Phat writes:

Just because he has money? That in and of itself is not a bad thing is it?


Having money isn't necessarily a bad thing. Putting value on his opinions because he has money is a bad thing.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 11-25-2018 2:51 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 20 of 31 (844145)
11-25-2018 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Straggler
11-25-2018 2:57 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
Straggler writes:

Past experience has to count for something when compared to someone who has neither past nor present experience of ordinary life.


Past experience may make George Clooney a nicer elite than Donald Trump but it doesn't necessarily make him less elite.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Straggler, posted 11-25-2018 2:57 PM Straggler has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3207
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(4)
Message 21 of 31 (844148)
11-25-2018 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
11-25-2018 2:34 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
Well, if eating burgers is good enough to keep Trump from being an elitist, then it should be good enough for George Clooney: Burgers and Airplanes with George Clooney | My Next Guest Needs No Introduction | Netflix. He's out there standing next to his car with David Letterman eating In-n-Out burgers.

Oh yeah, that's right. The Right lives by an entirely different set of rules. Fox News would express outrage for days every time Obama went golfing, but not a peep with Trump spending about a quarter of his term so far playing golf at resorts that he still owns. So far, that's cost the government and us tax-payers $80 million, the profit from which flows directly into Trump's own pocket. With not a single peep of outrage from the Right.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 2:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 11-26-2018 10:40 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 22 of 31 (844167)
11-26-2018 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by dwise1
11-25-2018 4:11 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
dwise1 writes:

Well, if eating burgers is good enough to keep Trump from being an elitist....


There's a difference between being an elitist and being elite.

Elite soldiers have special abilities used in special missions and they might get special treatment, such as extra leave, when they are not on those missions.

An elitist like Trump wants to be elite, whether he merits any special treatment or not. Somebody like George Clooney might not want to be elite, or at least he might not want to be perceived as elite, but some people do perceive him as elite because of his (perceived) abilities.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by dwise1, posted 11-25-2018 4:11 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1551
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 23 of 31 (844194)
11-26-2018 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
11-25-2018 2:34 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
I'm gonna say no. It isn't where you've been that makes you an elite. It's where you are now. The guy who's selling insurance and ladies' shoes in Kentucky was not an elite. George Clooney the celebrity is.

I do find the American right nowadays has a weird obsession with celebrities. On the lunatic fringe you see it in the way Hollywood and its celebrities are always an integral part of the conspiracy; but even more normal iterations seem to hold a lot of ire for the Hollywood elite.

Often I have heard the complaint that celebrities should just shut up and make music/films/TV whatever. I can entirely understand that you might have no interest in the political opinions of a celebrity. But if you hear them so much that it's bothering, then obviously you're consuming a lot of media that talks about celebrities' opinions. Why not simply stop doing so?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 2:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 3:11 PM caffeine has not yet responded
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 11-27-2018 10:37 AM caffeine has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11574
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 24 of 31 (844197)
11-26-2018 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by caffeine
11-26-2018 2:47 PM


Celebrity Apprentice
caffeine to ringo writes:

I do find the American right nowadays has a weird obsession with celebrities. On the lunatic fringe, you see it in the way Hollywood and its celebrities are always an integral part of the conspiracy; but even more normal iterations seem to hold a lot of ire for the Hollywood elite.

Often I have heard the complaint that celebrities should just shut up and make music/films/TV whatever. I can entirely understand that you might have no interest in the political opinions of a celebrity. But if you hear them so much that it's bothering, then obviously you're consuming a lot of media that talks about celebrities' opinions. Why not simply stop doing so?

It all gets back to Andy Warhol.

quote:
In the future everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes.
These days, lots of us want to be seen by the public at large and judged favorably by them. Teens make YouTube videos and post selfies.

The fact that we (the public) consume this media only leads weight to the favorable vote that celebrities...conscious or not...reality TV star or not...seek.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by caffeine, posted 11-26-2018 2:47 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11574
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 25 of 31 (844222)
11-26-2018 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Straggler
11-24-2018 2:48 PM


Spirit Of Christmas: Michelle Obama vs Melania Trump
Watch this video of Melania decorating the Whie House. Note the images being emphasized---they are things rather than people. One could argue that the Obamas were more about people and the Trumps are more about things.
Trump Decor

Michelle Obama 2016 Decor

Note the emphasis.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Straggler, posted 11-24-2018 2:48 PM Straggler has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 26 of 31 (844253)
11-27-2018 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by caffeine
11-26-2018 2:47 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
caffeine writes:

But if you hear them so much that it's bothering, then obviously you're consuming a lot of media that talks about celebrities' opinions. Why not simply stop doing so?


The reality is that many people do get their "news" from such sources. If celebrities don't want to be perceived as elitist, they should keep their political opinions to themselves.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by caffeine, posted 11-26-2018 2:47 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by caffeine, posted 11-28-2018 2:37 AM ringo has responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1551
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 27 of 31 (844313)
11-28-2018 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by ringo
11-27-2018 10:37 AM


Re: Gold Toilet
The reality is that many people do get their "news" from such sources. If celebrities don't want to be perceived as elitist, they should keep their political opinions to themselves.

Given that this advice essentially amounts to "Never discuss politics, because people who disagree with you won't like it", it applies to everybody, not just celebrities. But I'm not sure we're going to get anywhere if we all just refuse to discuss politics in future.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 11-27-2018 10:37 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 11-28-2018 2:34 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1965
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 28 of 31 (844322)
11-28-2018 7:14 AM


This one is funny. Two relatively rich people fighting about being called elite.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 29 of 31 (844350)
11-28-2018 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by caffeine
11-28-2018 2:37 AM


Re: Gold Toilet
caffeine writes:

Given that this advice essentially amounts to "Never discuss politics, because people who disagree with you won't like it", it applies to everybody, not just celebrities.


Of course it does. But people care what George Clooney thinks and they don't care what I think. It's hard to be elite when nobody has ever heard of you.

caffeine writes:

But I'm not sure we're going to get anywhere if we all just refuse to discuss politics in future.


I didn't say that "we" shouldn't discuss politics. I said that celebrities shouldn't pontificate about politics.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by caffeine, posted 11-28-2018 2:37 AM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-28-2018 3:26 PM ringo has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1895
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 30 of 31 (844355)
11-28-2018 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by ringo
11-28-2018 2:34 PM


Re: Gold Toilet
It's hard to be elite when nobody has ever heard of you.

So, I guess you are now claiming to be Illuminati because nobody has heard of you.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 11-28-2018 2:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 11-28-2018 3:39 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
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