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Author Topic:   Exposing the evolution theory. Part 2
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 822 of 1104 (909419)
04-03-2023 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 816 by Kleinman
03-31-2023 6:58 PM


Kleinman writes:
None of Taq's references explain how drug resistance occurs and why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation for a single selection pressure in the Kishony and Lenski experiments.
All of them do. Read the papers you fucking moron.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 816 by Kleinman, posted 03-31-2023 6:58 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 827 by Kleinman, posted 04-03-2023 8:20 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 823 of 1104 (909421)
04-03-2023 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 813 by Kleinman
03-31-2023 6:18 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
Did they identify 203,000 retroviruses in these genomes?
They weren't only trying to detect the presence of ERV's, and they were widespread amongst vertebrates.
What happens if a germ cell has more than one retrovirus active in the cell at a time?
Apparently, nothing. There are koalas with over 50 recently inserted ERVs and they are having offspring without a hitch.
Is your claim that the LTRs remain but the protein-coding region has disappeared? Do the LTRs ever get a mutation when they are replicated?
Already answered multiple times.
Are all LTRs associated with retroviruses?
LTRs are by definition from retroviral insertions.
If you don't have the viral protein-coding genes in the genetic sequence, and the LTRs have evolved, how can you be sure this genetic sequence is from a retrovirus?
The same way you can identify a partial fingerprint.
How do you determine that this piece of genetic material is the remnant of a retrovirus rather than host DNA when the viral protein-coding DNA is gone?
The same way we know a partial fingerprint is from a finger.
Can the host vertebrate genome have its own LTRs that are not from a virus?
Can a murder weapon have its own fingerprints?
All you are trying to do is used the Omphalos argument. Arguing that the human genome was created with genetic scars from retroviral insertion is nonsense. It's like saying the universe was created last Thursday, complete with a false history and false memories.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 813 by Kleinman, posted 03-31-2023 6:18 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 829 by Kleinman, posted 04-03-2023 8:26 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 824 of 1104 (909422)
04-03-2023 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 820 by Kleinman
04-01-2023 11:17 AM


Kleinman writes:
He is now shifting his argument from ERVs to LTRs.
LTRs are ERVs, you fucking moron.
The correct picture he should use for his argument looks like this:
You would deny that those are tires. Instead, they are round pieces of rubber that were created with the Earth 6,000 years ago. They never came from a tire factory, nor did they ever reside on a car.
Taq can look at this picture and tell us what vehicle these tires came off simply by the brand of tire.
I can tell you they are tires. In the same way, LTRs are the tires of the ERV vehicle. Your argument seems to be that the Earth was created with those tires already in place.
It is no surprise that Taq would rather argue about what he thinks atheism and agnosticism mean, or post a bunch of references that he claims explain how drug resistance evolves and then gets angry because I point out that he doesn't quote from any of them.
You fucking moron. You don't even understand the papers you claim to reference. You don't even understand that modeling asexual reproduction does not accurately model the evolution of sexual species. You can't even understand that the mutation rate is different in humans and in bacteria.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 820 by Kleinman, posted 04-01-2023 11:17 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 830 by Kleinman, posted 04-03-2023 8:30 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 825 of 1104 (909423)
04-03-2023 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 814 by Kleinman
03-31-2023 6:20 PM


Kleinman writes:
It appears you are having difficulty posting a quote from any of your papers that you think describes the mathematics of the evolution of drug resistance.
You don't need mathematics to explain how antibiotic resistance evolves, you fucking moron.
The fact is that biologists have failed to describe the physics and mathematics of biological evolution and the evolution of drug resistance.
Prove it. Show me every paper in existence on antibiotic resistance and show me that none of them have the requisite math.
I'm familiar with most of those papers you listed and none give the correct mathematics.
You wouldn't recognize correct math if it was right in front of you, you fucking moron.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 814 by Kleinman, posted 03-31-2023 6:20 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 831 by Kleinman, posted 04-03-2023 8:36 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 855 of 1104 (909486)
04-04-2023 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by Kleinman
04-03-2023 8:26 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
So, now you claim an LTR is an ERV?
Everyone in biology claims that, you fucking moron.
That's a relief for those with HIV, they don't have to worry about herpes simplex, herpes zoster, or cytomegalovirus,... affecting them.
Which has nothing to do with what you asked.
Sure, we got your nonsensical answer that LTRs are the same as ERVs, LTRs would be ERVs if they had viral protein-coding regions.
Any remnant of a retroviral insertion is an ERV. Solo LTR's are what is left over after homologous recombination of a full length ERV. Solo LTR's are the result of mutations in full length ERVs.
But you claim you can identify proteins even when they don't exist.
They do exist in many ERVs, you fucking moron.
So the 10% of LTRs that have some remaining protein-coding regions associated with them, why isn't the LTR altered as well?
Most of them are altered, you fucking moron.
How do we tell that both mice and humans have a cytochrome c gene? How do you think that works? The two gene sequences differ by quite a bit, so how can they tell these are the same gene?
Is your claim now that the genetic sequences for LTRs never evolve?
No, you fucking moron. I have never said that. As shown by genes shared by many different vertebrates, it's possible to identify homologous sequence even when the sequence differs. These are basic, basic concepts, and you can't seem to understand them.
A long terminal repeat (LTR) is a pair of identical sequences of DNA, several hundred base pairs long, which occur in eukaryotic genomes on either end of a series of genes or pseudogenes that form a retrotransposon or an endogenous retrovirus or a retroviral provirus.
So how do you think the authors of the human genome paper were able to distinguish between LTRs from retroviruses and LTRs from retrotransposons?
Do vertebrates have retrotransposons that are not ERVs?
Wrong question. What are the LTR sequences?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by Kleinman, posted 04-03-2023 8:26 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 860 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 5:35 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 870 by Dredge, posted 04-05-2023 1:33 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 856 of 1104 (909487)
04-04-2023 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 832 by Kleinman
04-03-2023 8:40 PM


Re: problems with detecting design
Kleinman writes:
When he realized what the structure of DNA is, there is no rational way to explain the evolution of such a molecule.
So says the person who accepts the irrational belief that DNA was magically poofed into being.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 832 by Kleinman, posted 04-03-2023 8:40 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 861 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 5:36 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 865 by Dredge, posted 04-05-2023 1:05 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 857 of 1104 (909488)
04-04-2023 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 831 by Kleinman
04-03-2023 8:36 PM


Kleinman writes:
Are you going to explain to us why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive step in the Kishony and Lenski experiments?
I already did multiple times, and here we are again. You fucking moron.
You are the one claiming that biologists have explained the evolution of drug resistance.
And they have, you fucking moron.
Sure I would Taq, it is right here in this paper:
None of which actually matches reality. For example, the rate of appearance for antibiotic resistance in the Lenski paper differs based on the genetic background of the bacteria. Where is that in your math?
Genomic evolution of antibiotic resistance is contingent on genetic background following a long-term experiment with Escherichia coli - PubMed
Not only that, but the appearance of antibiotic resistance can differ by 1,000 fold depending on the antibiotic. Where is that in your math?
REPLICA PLATING AND INDIRECT SELECTION OF BACTERIAL MUTANTS - PMC
On top of everything else, your math is completely irrelevant to the vast majority of adaptation in biology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 831 by Kleinman, posted 04-03-2023 8:36 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 858 by Dredge, posted 04-04-2023 3:30 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 862 by Kleinman, posted 04-04-2023 5:40 PM Taq has not replied

  
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