Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 89 (8876 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 12-11-2018 5:01 AM
182 online now:
caffeine, PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat), Straggler (4 members, 178 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Bill Holbert
Post Volume:
Total: 843,780 Year: 18,603/29,783 Month: 548/2,043 Week: 100/386 Day: 3/47 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
2
345Next
Author Topic:   Exposing the evolution theory. Part 2
Taq
Member
Posts: 7610
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 16 of 73 (844671)
12-03-2018 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Porkncheese
11-30-2018 7:06 PM


Porkncheese writes:

The question is how common or rare are advantageous functional sequences among the possible combinations of the DNA code? The answer is 1x10^77. Thatís a 10 with 77 zeros. Those odds are so big that even billions of years could not produce that many outcomes.

There are about 7 billion advantageous combinations of DNA kicking around right now for just humans. Your math is obviously wrong.

If only 1 out of 10^77 DNA mutations was advantageous, then humans shouldn't exist. There are only 3 x 10^9 bases in our haploid genome. This would mean that none of the 40 million or so mutations that separate us from chimps would be advantageous, which is also obviously not true. Any probability that is greater than 3 x 10^9 is obviously wrong.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Porkncheese, posted 11-30-2018 7:06 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 17 of 73 (844683)
12-03-2018 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
12-01-2018 8:54 AM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
U closed the first thread because ďcomplaints regarding your refusal to respond to your first topic adequatelyĒ only after a few days. Iíve been busy. Itís the theme with evolutionists. Donít like to be questioned.

There was confusion about the term ďnaturalismĒ. I responded and cleared that up. I also made it clear about wanting to see pre Cambrian evolution in the fossils. And people presented it. Then u closed it down. I didnít even get a chance to look and respond. Iíve been busy cos now im working while im off school but I shouldnít have to explain my personal schedule. I responded to everything that was relevant but obviously got some feathers ruffled.

ďThe Discovery InstituteĒ Iíve never even heard of them.

ďA bit miffed that you didn't fess up and tell us all that you were considering the arguments of the Intelligent Design communityĒ
What do u mean? Why does it matter who is making the arguments? By that logic it should be stated that ToE is pushed by atheists. One mob believes in God and the other doesnít believe in God. Both positions of faith. Why should I trust either one? The only thing I ďbelieveĒ in is knowledge. Thatís why im agnostic. I donít have to choose yes or no to the question ďdo I believe in GodĒ. There is a 3rd option. I donít know. You guys operate from belief. I operate from knowledge.

Iím ďmaking their conclusions your conclusions even though you don't yet understand both sides of the arguments thoroughlyĒ

Another perplexing statement. One guy copied and pasted a whole book, isnít that the same? How are public school kids drawing conclusions? Arenít they concluding evolution as fact? Itís what the atheists are concluding. Do they understand both sides of the argument? No. Do u see what I mean? Its fine for everyone to make the atheist conclusion their conclusion without knowing both sides. Yet there is objections when itís turned. Why?

I donít have time to study all the details and make an argument. From where I sit I see atheists vs theists. All Im doing is presenting the points that donít add up to me. Im not trying to argue any intelligent design. Rather Iím looking for the responses.

For example the fossils presented to me donít show evidence for a common ancestor. I canít see where the evolution takes place. U can bombard me with words but these are fossils. If there are heaps then why canít we arrange them to show evolution? If there isnít heaps then the fossil record does not support ToE.

And with the probability these arenít the only guys that have come up with probabilities there are a few different ones all with different outcomes. But if go ahead and believe that its probable how does it all arrange itself from atom to a living creature like in the diagram? How many more processes are needed? Can DNA mutation alone account for all of it?

Really this is just silly. Atheists being offended by some agnostic skepticism. Closing a thread after a few days. This is anti science this kind of attitude.

I posed questions to theists in the last few months. Skeptical questions. Difficult questions. Criticisms. I took time in responding. I was never clear to them what my conclusions were. In fact I was very vague. But the difference in the reactions, responses and admin intervention is just unbelievable.

Honestly, I donít buy the ToE fairytale and I donít buy the bible fairytale. But the insistence of these atheists for everyone to drop religion and start a new life is absurd. WAKE UP ATHEISTS. U DONíT BELIEVE THERE IS A GOD. BUT U DONíT KNOW THAT. UR POSITION IS ONE OF FAITH EVEN MORE DOGMATIC THAN THEISTS

Can we demonstrate macro ToE in experiments? Make an animal turn into another type? Why not?
Theyíve been trying since spontaneous generation and jumped straight onto ToE. Theyíve produced a bunch of frauds which for me is also a deal breaker. What does a judge do when he learns the defendant has been dishonest? Fool me once shame on u fool me twice shame on me. The whole ToE is founded on frauds.

Im comfortable in my ďbeliefĒ (a rare time I use that word) that the soft sciences are corrupted by anti theist style atheists whose only objective is to destroy religion.

They go around like preachers, preaching hate and lies. Preaching against western civilization. Foolishly thinking an atheist society will do better than the thousands of years that societies have come under religion. Blind to what is happening in society now cos of atheism. Blind to history that shows us what happens under atheism. Arrogance and ignorance is the sense I get from atheists. Unable to understand morals in society, the nature of humans and what is required to maintain a society.

Anti theists are anti society. U could say im agnostic with Christian values. Cos I see the values created by the atheist community and where its taking us. Atheists are just too narrow minded to see the bigger picture.

If there is a God then perhaps it is Satan doing his work against humanity throught the blind Atheists whoses morals have no foundation and can be easily manipulated by society.

Lets kill babies, yay. Lets allow adultery and open divorce, yay. Lets allow gay matrriage, yay. Lets allow gays to expose kids to sexual material, info, etc, yay. Lets allow gays to adopt kids, yay. Lets allow kids of 8yo to choose to be gay, yay. Lets allow 8yo kids to choose to be trannies, yay. Lets encourage kids to be gay, yay. Lets give our kids puberty blockers and fund surgeries to help be trannies, yay. Lets send any man to prison on the allegation of a woman, yay. Lets make it impossible for single men to approach women, yay. Lets make it possible for women to call rape if a man doesn't do what she pleases, yay. Let's destroy relations and rewrite the rules of engagement, yay. Lets encourage promisuity in women, yay. Lets assume all men are potential killers and rapists, yay. Lets make mens lives hang on the selfishness of young atheist women that have no morals.

You guys are old and married. Yas propbably wouldn't have a clue on the changes happening to the market place of single young people. This generation snowflake which im ashamed to be in are full atheists intent on destruction.

Damn wrote a book. LoL. Ah well cop that. Its probably all disjointed with spelling errors but i don't really care.. Atheists can have a good sook picking it all apart to make themselves feel better. I cbf editing this or presenting the several other issues I had with ToE if people are going to cry about it. i gave em another chance a year later. I was much more measured in my approach. I wasn't rude this time but the outcome was even worse this time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 12-01-2018 8:54 AM AdminPhat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by DrJones*, posted 12-04-2018 12:55 AM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 20 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2018 3:18 AM Porkncheese has responded
 Message 21 by Pressie, posted 12-04-2018 4:03 AM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 25 by AZPaul3, posted 12-04-2018 10:43 AM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 26 by Taq, posted 12-04-2018 11:08 AM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 33 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-04-2018 2:51 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 64 by dwise1, posted 12-05-2018 4:08 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

    
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 18 of 73 (844684)
12-03-2018 10:28 PM


You guys have made arguing eachother some kind of art form.
Do I know how to argue mumbo jumbo. No.

My studies aren't about beliefs they are about knowleadge. Although there are theoretical physicists they don't use this standard of belief and conjecture. Numbers support everything, they don't lie. Everything is easily observable, testable, repeatable and falsifiable. According to Karl Popper ToE is a pseudoscience.

I thought Charles Darwin was some kind of Atheist wanker going around the world preaching against religion like they do today. I was very surprised at the humble words he uses in his book. The willingness to give arguments against his theory. His honestly. And above all the fact that he died Agnostic... Respect... If only todays scientists were this open minded.

Anyway enough of my rants. I stand by my statement over a year ago which made atheists cry...

"Knowledge comes from knowing u don't know everything"


Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by caffeine, posted 12-04-2018 12:30 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1758
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 19 of 73 (844685)
12-04-2018 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Porkncheese
12-03-2018 10:08 PM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
what a snowflake
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Porkncheese, posted 12-03-2018 10:08 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6352
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 20 of 73 (844687)
12-04-2018 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Porkncheese
12-03-2018 10:08 PM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
This is a jumble of ill-considered opinion, I'll just make a couple of general comments.

1. We love to be questioned, it's the entire purpose of the place. But if you do it in a dumb and garbled way, you'll get told that your questioning is dumb and garbled.

2. We would prefer that if you open a thread that you stick around to defend what you say, but we understand that life gets in the way and sometimes that's not possible. But what you don't then do is open another thread instead.

3. You really need to get yourself straight about this evolution=atheism stuff. It's not just wrong, it's a lie. There are a few atheists here but there are more believers. With one or two exceptions all accept the ToE. Across the Western world believers are in the majority and most scientists are believers of some sort or another. With very, very few exceptions all scientists accept the ToE regadless of their religious or other views. You've been told a lie, please don't repeat it.

The ToE is just another branch of science it has nothing to do with religion. It doesn't care what people believe, it simply reports what's observed. You saw that from Darwin himself.

Those that discovered that the earth was very old 200 years ago were Christians that set out to find evidence that it was young to verify the bible stories. They were forced to accept the opposite - because like Darwin, they followed the evidence.

Please do the same.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Porkncheese, posted 12-03-2018 10:08 PM Porkncheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Porkncheese, posted 12-04-2018 7:32 AM Tangle has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1965
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 21 of 73 (844691)
12-04-2018 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Porkncheese
12-03-2018 10:08 PM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
You having a public meltdown is not going to change the fact that you told inaccuracies when you wrote:

Porkncheese writes:

ToE says that evolution occurs through natural selection acting on random genetic mutation of DNA. This calls for several failed mutations to occur before one is advantageous enough to persist.

That's you being very economical with the truth.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Porkncheese, posted 12-03-2018 10:08 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

    
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 22 of 73 (844695)
12-04-2018 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Tangle
12-04-2018 3:18 AM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Yas hate to be questioned. The proof is here. People having a sook.

Stick around. U closed it in only a few days. People understood what I was asking for and presented it. Thanks to them. Closing it only shows fear.

Blah blah blah don't listen to them. Listen to us. If I shouldn't listen to theists why should I listen to atheists who are preaching this crap? Who have no moral boundaries? Explain to me how the fuck im meant to get layed under this atheist society? Atheists seemingly have no knowledge on human nature, history and society? Their argument to widely held skepticism is ad homen fallicy among others. Your beliefs are founded on frauds like piltdown man, fake horse and moth evolution, hoax embryos. U think this field deserves to be believed? Does it deserve the respect and funding it gets over the rest of us after the systematic lies? U can't be reasonable if u expect me to overlook the lies.

I follow knowledge not the irrational beliefs of atheists or theists.

Look at how the theists handled my skeptic questions compared to the atheist's. With class and dignity. Seriously. Why so hostile to simple questioning? Was I rude?

Like u avoided my conclusion on the fossils and didn't try offering an explination as to how DNA mutation can account for the rest of it.
How were u guys going to handle the rest of the parts I was going to present if yas blew up on the first one...

Seriously biology needs to stop engaging in theological discussions before any credibility is restored.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2018 3:18 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2018 7:57 AM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 30 by DrJones*, posted 12-04-2018 2:25 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 31 by Phat, posted 12-04-2018 2:27 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 43 by dwise1, posted 12-04-2018 8:56 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 44 by dwise1, posted 12-04-2018 10:32 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

    
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 23 of 73 (844696)
12-04-2018 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dr Adequate
12-03-2018 9:40 AM


Hehehehe u guys are such jokers
Mechanical engineering isn't a science though.

Bahahahahshaha. OMG. That is hilarious.
An interesting insight into the atheist darwinistic mind.
ToE Delusional... Case closed...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-03-2018 9:40 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-04-2018 11:37 AM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 35 by JoeT, posted 12-04-2018 4:30 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 63 by dwise1, posted 12-05-2018 3:37 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6352
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 24 of 73 (844697)
12-04-2018 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Porkncheese
12-04-2018 7:32 AM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Listen dickhead, if you don't do anything else, learn that evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism.

The vast, overwhelming majority of those that accept evolution are not atheists. The overwhelming majority of scientists that work in the field are not atheists. Darwin himself was a Christian. Even the Catholic church accepts evolution as fact.

Get your head into the right place and you may be able to sustain a rational argument, blather on like you do here, talking nonsense, and you've lost any argument you want to make before you start..

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Porkncheese, posted 12-04-2018 7:32 AM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3518
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 25 of 73 (844702)
12-04-2018 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Porkncheese
12-03-2018 10:08 PM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Lets kill babies, yay. Lets allow adultery and open divorce, yay. Lets allow gay matrriage, yay. Lets allow gays to expose kids to sexual material, info, etc, yay. Lets allow gays to adopt kids, yay. Lets allow kids of 8yo to choose to be gay, yay. Lets allow 8yo kids to choose to be trannies, yay. Lets encourage kids to be gay, yay. Lets give our kids puberty blockers and fund surgeries to help be trannies, yay. Lets send any man to prison on the allegation of a woman, yay. Lets make it impossible for single men to approach women, yay. Lets make it possible for women to call rape if a man doesn't do what she pleases, yay. Let's destroy relations and rewrite the rules of engagement, yay. Lets encourage promisuity in women, yay. Lets assume all men are potential killers and rapists, yay. Lets make mens lives hang on the selfishness of young atheist women that have no morals.

Oh, yes! The Atheist Agenda. Such a wonderful list..I'm glad you converted!

One item you forgot. We atheist don't just kill babies, we eat them, with various sauces and accompanying veggies.

If you're in the Phoenix area at the time I still have some complimentary tickets to InfantaFeast held here on the 16th this month. I'd be honored to take you as my honored guest.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Porkncheese, posted 12-03-2018 10:08 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7610
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 26 of 73 (844705)
12-04-2018 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Porkncheese
12-03-2018 10:08 PM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Porkncheese writes:

For example the fossils presented to me donít show evidence for a common ancestor. I canít see where the evolution takes place.

How about this?

"A" is a chimp and "L" is a modern human. The rest are laid out in chronological order. This sure looks like macroevolution to me. If you disagree, please tell us what features these fossils are missing that you would need to see in order to accept it as evidence for macroevolution.

Another perplexing statement. One guy copied and pasted a whole book, isnít that the same? How are public school kids drawing conclusions? Arenít they concluding evolution as fact? Itís what the atheists are concluding.

That's what both atheists and theists are concluding. Scientists of all religious beliefs have accepted the theory of evolution. Evolution is a scientific theory, not an atheist theory.

And with the probability these arenít the only guys that have come up with probabilities there are a few different ones all with different outcomes. But if go ahead and believe that its probable how does it all arrange itself from atom to a living creature like in the diagram? How many more processes are needed? Can DNA mutation alone account for all of it?

The physical differences between chimps and humans is due to the DNA sequence differences found between their genomes. So yes, mutations can account for it.

Can we demonstrate macro ToE in experiments? Make an animal turn into another type? Why not?

We can demonstrate macroevolution in experiments. All you have to do in the experiment is to test for a phylolgenetic signal in the morphological and genetic data, and see if there is a statistically significant correlation between them. That's the experiment.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Porkncheese, posted 12-03-2018 10:08 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16065
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 27 of 73 (844708)
12-04-2018 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Porkncheese
12-04-2018 7:38 AM


Re: Hehehehe u guys are such jokers
Bahahahahshaha. OMG. That is hilarious.
An interesting insight into the atheist darwinistic mind.
ToE Delusional... Case closed...

And is that your best argument?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Porkncheese, posted 12-04-2018 7:38 AM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1551
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 28 of 73 (844711)
12-04-2018 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Porkncheese
12-03-2018 10:28 PM


Numbers support everything, they don't lie.

So were you planning on following up on anything about the numbers posted in the OP?

According to Karl Popper ToE is a pseudoscience.

Karl Popper said the Theory of Evolution was not only a scientific theory but also "the most successful explanation of the relevant facts"; but what does he have to do with the topic anyway? Poor man's been dead quarter of a century - leave him alone.

I understand you may be busy; but you just managed to write 4 posts and well over a thousand words without mentioning anything from the opening post or any of the responses to it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Porkncheese, posted 12-03-2018 10:28 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 29 of 73 (844722)
12-04-2018 2:18 PM


Exposed as frauds
Exposed as frauds again by a school kid. Hehehe
And why moderator did u reject my subject on sociogenesis the other week???
Cos ur afraid that's why. Afraid like all the evolutionists and atheists of faith
Pathetic excuse for a science. Disgraceful
    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1758
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 30 of 73 (844723)
12-04-2018 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Porkncheese
12-04-2018 7:32 AM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Explain to me how the fuck im meant to get layed under this atheist society?

try not being 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag? Sex isn't something you're owed.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Porkncheese, posted 12-04-2018 7:32 AM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Prev1
2
345Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018