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Author Topic:   Thermodynamics and The Universe
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 18 of 186 (383386)
02-07-2007 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Doddy
02-07-2007 7:32 PM


Re: Light stretching
The microwave background (google WMAP) is what is "left" of the light\radiation from the moment (theoretical) when energy "condensed" into matter and left gaps in the universe. It has "red-shifted" all the way down to microwaves that are detectable as background "noise".
About WMAP Mission Results
quote:
WMAP has produced a new, more detailed picture of the infant universe. Colors indicate "warmer" (red) and "cooler" (blue) spots. The white bars show the "polarization" direction of the oldest light. This new information helps to pinpoint when the first stars formed and provides new clues about events that transpired in the first trillionth of a second of the universe.
Light doesn't change speed, just wavelength.
But I do know that we can see galaxies outside of the Hubble sphere (which were receding superluminally when they emitted the photons that our telescopes can see).
There is also a difference between where the galaxy "is" now, where it "was" when the light left, and the distance light has traveled to get "here" due to the stretching factor.
Enjoy.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 47 of 186 (384023)
02-09-2007 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by kuresu
02-09-2007 12:08 PM


Re: Two times.
how do you guys come up with this stuff?
must be the extra time on their hands ...
ducks behind desk ...

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 49 of 186 (384056)
02-09-2007 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Son Goku
02-09-2007 8:26 PM


t for two?
Philosophers' Playground: Time Times Two
quote:
There is an interesting paper, On the Dimensionality of Spacetime, on this by MIT physicist Max Tegmark where he argues that the only stable dimensional set up is one in which there are three spatial and one temporal dimension.
It is a wonderful paper. But, be careful, Tegmark does have a philosophical ax to grind here. He is one who has a soft spot for the Anthropic Principle, the cosmological version of Intelligent Design.
link in original is to
http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/dimensions.pdf
quote:
Abstract. Some superstring theories have more than one effective low-energy limit corresponding to classical spacetimes with different dimensionalities. We argue that all but the (3+1)-dimensional one might correspond to ”dead worlds’, devoid of observers, in which case all such ensemble theories would actually predict that we should find ourselves inhabiting a (3+1)-dimensional spacetime. With more or less than one time dimension, the partial differential equations of nature would lack the hyperbolicity property that enables observers to make predictions. In a space with more than three dimensions, there can be no traditional atoms and perhaps no stable structures. A space with less than three dimensions allows no gravitational force and may be too simple and barren to contain observers.
So there could be a number of strung together sub universes but only in the 3+1t sectors(s) would life exist.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Son Goku, posted 02-09-2007 8:26 PM Son Goku has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Son Goku, posted 02-10-2007 6:47 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 51 by cavediver, posted 02-10-2007 7:17 AM RAZD has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 54 of 186 (384137)
02-10-2007 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Son Goku
02-10-2007 6:47 AM


Re: t for two?
The Anthropic Principle hasn't got anything to do with intelligent design, in fact it's a lazy link to make. I think Tegmark's just saying why String Theorists might not have to explain 3+1 dimensionality. The Anthropic Principle is sort of a modification to the Copernican Principle.
IDologists do use the anthropic principle to show that the universe is designed for us - the typical post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy approach. I thought it was rather an ad hominum to attack him on it and then say the paper made no mention of it. It's kind of like saying "yeah but he's _______, so he has an agenda" (fill in blank with favorite derogatory epithet).
My impression of string theory is that it hypothesizes this uber universe with side eddies where some of the dimensions disappear (and we would be in one with (3+1) OR one where the extra dimensions were tangled into small eddies in the uber universe leaving us with (3+1) in the observable. Topologically these are the same.
It trades a universe full of dark stuffs for one of dark dimensions ...

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 56 of 186 (384745)
02-12-2007 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Son Goku
02-12-2007 10:30 AM


Re: Two times.
The reason I pointed it out is that alot of people, when they hear of two time dimensions, initially think that instead of having a timeline, you'd have a "time area", if you catch my drift.
Wouldn't that be the area of possibilities, but objects would still have vectors within that area that would be indistinguishable from passage of time in a single time universe (except for objects on a line tx=-ty)?
In other words, how would one know there is only one time dimension? I think of the possible perceptions of the denizens of "Flatland" ...

Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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