Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,914 Year: 4,171/9,624 Month: 1,042/974 Week: 1/368 Day: 1/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Speed of Light Barrier
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 92 of 178 (501086)
03-04-2009 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by NosyNed
03-04-2009 1:24 AM


Re: FTL
I believe if we can warp space itself we can simulate the wormhole effect and in truth travel faster than light. This gets around the paradox that the faster something gets to the speed of light the more massive it becomes.
In essense, a spaceship would be stationary and would bend the space around itself using massive quantities of energy. This is similar to the effect that gravity has on the fabric of spacetime. Thus it is not really that you are travelling faster than the speed of light to get to the stars/galaxies/etc but rather you are shortening the space in between you and your destination.
Of course this is all hypothetical and the energy required would be enormous. However, possibly by harnessing the energy from antimatter and matter collisions this energy could be tapped. Also, the implications of how this effects the 'fabric' of spacetime and matter in between these two locations is unknown.
BTW, Gene Roddenberry was a science fiction genius and well ahead of his time, techonologically speaking (though he did get many of his ideas from just perusing contemporary theoretical physicists and other futurologists speculations and ideas).
Cavediver (and other resident physicists), do you see this as being plausible or just science fiction?
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by NosyNed, posted 03-04-2009 1:24 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by cavediver, posted 03-04-2009 7:45 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied
 Message 122 by shalamabobbi, posted 04-01-2009 3:26 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 120 of 178 (503992)
03-23-2009 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Perdition
03-23-2009 5:58 PM


My question, and this was a question of some interest before I dropped out of my physics major and switched to philosophy, is what about the laws of the Universe make the speed of light the ultimate barrier.
The laws of the universe are really a metaphore for the phenomena of how the universe operates. Layman take the word "law" too literally. This is an anthopomorphic term conjured in the minds of men. In other words, we see through human-centered glasses and attempt to label things on the edge of human comprehension with human centered language. Asking why matter has a speed limit is akin to asking why does the universe aka spacetime exist in the first place. These two concepts are one in the same, are fundamental in nature and have yet to be fully understood.
I mean, I can understand that something with mass would need infinite engergy to reach c, but why can't something without mass go faster?
There is speculation of faster than light zero-mass particles/energy called tachyons (yes, Star Trek borrowed this idea from main stream science). However, this idea is purely hypothetical with no evidence yet supporting it.
The limit of the speed of light (or more accurately electromagnetic radiation) in a vacuum is tied up to the very concept of spacetime itself. They are indistinguishable as described by Einstein's Special/General Theory of Relativity.
Do they have a tentative answer about that yet?
A good book that describes the nature of spacetime and the speed of light limit is Brian Greenes's "The Fabric of the Cosmos" and the classic Hawking book "A Brief History of Time".
The more we answer the more we find we can ask.
I whole-heartedly agree with this. If we stop asking questions we become non-sentient beings.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Perdition, posted 03-23-2009 5:58 PM Perdition has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by onifre, posted 03-24-2009 10:12 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 141 of 178 (519662)
08-15-2009 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Creation Guy
08-15-2009 9:23 PM


Re: Why 3x10^8m/s?
tedrick79 writes:
What I am saying that in order to have a universal constant - it needs to be universally consistent. If not, then webster needs to redefine what a constant is.
Like Taz stated earlier, the individual photons of light always precede at c, the speed of light (299,792,458 m/s) between being absorbed and retransmitted by the atoms encountered enroute. It is this absorption and retransmission of light that is slowing down the "beam of light" not the individual photons of light themselves that are slowing down.
tedrick writes:
Again I am sensing this glass case that the speed of light being constant theory is now attached to evolutionary theory
What does the speed of light have to do with evolutionary theory?!?
Tedrick writes:
Because if it is not constant then the light year is all jazzed up.
The speed of light through the relative vacuum of space is c. There is no issue here. It is only when light travels through atomically dense material that the speed of light (or I should more accurately state the speed of the light beam) decreases enough that it becomes noticable.
Tedrick writes:
We have no idea how fast light could move in the clear intergallactic space or even in interstellar space or interplanetary space.
It depends. The average atomic density given for interstellar space is between 0.1 and 5 atoms per cubic centimeter. This density is extremely low and only measurably affects the speed of a light beam over extremely long distances i.e. billions of light years or proceeding through relatively dense gasesous regions such as nebulae and galactic cores.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"In the beginning, the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people mad and been widely regarded as a bad idea."
Douglas Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Creation Guy, posted 08-15-2009 9:23 PM Creation Guy has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 143 of 178 (519664)
08-15-2009 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Taz
08-15-2009 10:31 PM


Re: Why 3x10^8m/s?
Taz writes:
Ask yourself whether it could be the case that the photon absorbed is the same photon emitted.
You really can't define photon's in this fashion. They are not physical tangible particles of mass per se but rather are energy concentrations in relatively small regions of spacetime. They have 0 mass and therefore it really makes no sense to say whether this is the "same photon" as there is no way possible to identify one photon from the next.

"In the beginning, the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people mad and been widely regarded as a bad idea."
Douglas Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Taz, posted 08-15-2009 10:31 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Taz, posted 08-15-2009 11:10 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024