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Author Topic:   What is the YEC answer to the lack of shorter lived isotopes?
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 128 (104943)
05-03-2004 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rei
12-15-2003 8:23 PM


Are they really missing?
Rei, What is the evidence that any of these alleged missing isotopes were ever on earth? IOW soemthing shouldn't be considered missing if it wasn't here in the first place. So that is where we need to start. It will only become a problem for YEC if and only if those isotopes can be placed on earth. If they can't be placed on earth at some point in the past then YECs have nothing to explain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Rei, posted 12-15-2003 8:23 PM Rei has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Coragyps, posted 05-03-2004 1:34 PM John Paul has replied
 Message 40 by Percy, posted 05-03-2004 1:37 PM John Paul has replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 128 (104949)
05-03-2004 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Coragyps
05-03-2004 1:34 PM


Re: Are they really missing?
Daughter isotopes? It would depend if those alleged daughter isotopes have one and only one possible parent. Please state which daughter isotopes fall in to this category.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Coragyps, posted 05-03-2004 1:34 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Coragyps, posted 05-03-2004 3:08 PM John Paul has not replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 128 (104950)
05-03-2004 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Percy
05-03-2004 1:37 PM


Re: Are they really missing?
Percy, my point is that we don't know if they are missing or were never here. It doesn't matter what the half-life is. If that isotope wasn't here in the first place it is not an issue and not missing. I could say my bank account is missing one million dollars. I mean there isn't a million dollars in my account so it must be missing? Right? No, I never had one million dollars in any one account.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Percy, posted 05-03-2004 1:37 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by NosyNed, posted 05-03-2004 2:27 PM John Paul has replied
 Message 44 by Percy, posted 05-03-2004 2:27 PM John Paul has replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 128 (104982)
05-03-2004 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Percy
05-03-2004 2:27 PM


Re: Are they really missing?
Percy:The isotopes are naturally occurring, and so they all should exist on earth.
John Paul:
That is an assertion and is not evidence. Evidence would be to find a daughter product that could ONLY come from one of the alleged missing isotopes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Percy, posted 05-03-2004 2:27 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Percy, posted 05-05-2004 8:48 AM John Paul has replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 128 (104984)
05-03-2004 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by NosyNed
05-03-2004 2:27 PM


Re: Are they really missing?
Ned, Nd 142 can also come from Ce 142, Pr 142 and Pm 142. How far am I going to go? Until I have the evidence that shows these nuclides are actually a problem for YECs.

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 Message 43 by NosyNed, posted 05-03-2004 2:27 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Coragyps, posted 05-05-2004 10:34 AM John Paul has not replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 128 (105559)
05-05-2004 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Percy
05-05-2004 8:48 AM


Re: Are they really missing?
Percy:
New solar systems condense from the stellar debris of nova and supernova.
John Paul:
More assertions? Do you have any evidence to support that claim? Even if it were true it doesn't follow that every element/ isotope that was in that "cloud" would fall/ condense on one or all planets.
You still haven't provided any evidence that these isotopes were ever on this planet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Percy, posted 05-05-2004 8:48 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Percy, posted 05-05-2004 1:54 PM John Paul has replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 128 (105582)
05-05-2004 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Percy
05-05-2004 1:54 PM


Re: Are they really missing?
Percy I am asking for evidence to support the "nebula hypothesis". There is a reason it is still a hypothesis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Percy, posted 05-05-2004 1:54 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 05-05-2004 5:10 PM John Paul has not replied
 Message 54 by Coragyps, posted 05-05-2004 5:24 PM John Paul has not replied
 Message 56 by Percy, posted 05-08-2004 4:44 AM John Paul has not replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 128 (109553)
05-20-2004 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Loudmouth
05-05-2004 6:09 PM


Re: Summary
One thing to remember- the earth can be made up of materials that are old, or have been through a process that has made them appear to be old, and still have been formed relatively recently. Such would be the case with Dr. Humphreys' cosmology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Loudmouth, posted 05-05-2004 6:09 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by JonF, posted 05-21-2004 6:27 PM John Paul has replied
 Message 59 by Chiroptera, posted 05-21-2004 6:53 PM John Paul has replied
 Message 74 by Loudmouth, posted 05-26-2004 4:57 PM John Paul has not replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 128 (109748)
05-21-2004 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by JonF
05-21-2004 6:27 PM


Re: Summary
JonF:
Unfortunately for you Humphreys' "cosmology", while perhaps seeming reasonable to the uneducated and prejudiced audience he's aiming at, is incompatible with the observations and General Relativity.
John Paul:
Again with the assertions. Care toi give any specifics?
JonF:
IOW, Humphreys is a psuedoscientific crank who knows not whereof he speaks.
John Paul:
And who are you? I would love to see you debate Dr. Humphreys about his cosmology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by JonF, posted 05-21-2004 6:27 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Percy, posted 05-21-2004 7:34 PM John Paul has not replied
 Message 66 by JonF, posted 05-21-2004 9:10 PM John Paul has replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 128 (109749)
05-21-2004 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Chiroptera
05-21-2004 6:53 PM


Re: Summary
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the earth can be made up of materials that are old, or have been through a process that has made them appear to be old, and still have been formed relatively recently.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chiro:
Are you comparing the creation of the earth with antiquities fraud?
John Paul:
Nope, just making a statement. What I am saying is that even if the earth was formed recently doesn't mean all the materials that went into that formation had to be formed recently or that those materials were not subject to some process that "aged" them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Chiroptera, posted 05-21-2004 6:53 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Percy, posted 05-21-2004 7:40 PM John Paul has replied
 Message 64 by Chiroptera, posted 05-21-2004 8:11 PM John Paul has not replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 128 (110663)
05-26-2004 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Percy
05-21-2004 7:40 PM


Re: Summary
John Paul writes:
What I am saying is that even if the earth was formed recently doesn't mean all the materials that went into that formation had to be formed recently or that those materials were not subject to some process that "aged" them.
Percy:
Once again you are advocating a process for which there is no evidence.
John Paul:
LoL! And you are not just as guilty? Where is the evidence that this solar system was formed via the nebula hypothesis? How do we know what it is we see in Orion's nebula is actually the formation and not remnants of the explosion?
Percy:
You can refuse to believe modern dating methods all you like, but how are you going to persuade people to your own point of view if, to liken evidence to money, you've arrived a pauper and your opponent is sitting on Fort Knox.
John Paul:
And you can take it on faith that those methods are relieble because that would be all you have- faith. We do not even know what causes atoms to be unstable and decay. What we do is to measure what daughter product(s) and parent product(s) are in a sample and derive an "age" from that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Percy, posted 05-21-2004 7:40 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by edge, posted 05-27-2004 12:19 AM John Paul has not replied
 Message 77 by Percy, posted 05-27-2004 3:54 PM John Paul has not replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 128 (110666)
05-26-2004 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by JonF
05-21-2004 9:10 PM


Re: Summary
JonF. have you even read what Humphreys proposes? It would appear the answer is No! The gravity well is gone due to the fact the white hole has emptied its contents.
And where did the imagined singularity of the big bang come from? Magic. Again your double standards are obvious.
Humphreys has a PhD. in physics. It wasn't just a side course on his way to another degree.
As for reasons to believe Humphreys has answered them and they refuse to debate him, even via written correspondence. Which would satisfy your criteria of peer review.
BTW there was a recent peer reviewed paper that supports some of Humphreys premises.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by JonF, posted 05-21-2004 9:10 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by JonF, posted 05-26-2004 3:40 PM John Paul has not replied

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 128 (110667)
05-26-2004 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Cold Foreign Object
05-21-2004 8:59 PM


Re: Summary
WT:
We creos MUST relent to an old earth/universe. The scientific evidence is irrefuteable.
John Paul:
That's a joke, right?
What is this irrefutable evidence of an old earth? Or is it just unfalsifiable conclusions based on one worldview?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 05-21-2004 8:59 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
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