The gentic inheritance of sin - if it is true what are the consequences?

I think you missed her "point", Paul. She's not denying that predators and predation exist (or existed). She's merely asserting that predators and predation post-date the Fall - an utterly unfalsifiable claim. Why do you bother?

Because it's a good idea for Faith to learn the difference between the evidence and the interpretation of the evidence. In every case she meant the latter (and she did question the evidence of trilobite predation)Because if Faith won't learn then at least any other readers can see that she is being unreasonable.Because Creationists often falsely claim that evidence doesn't exist, and people beleive them. Those claims need to be challenged.

Ah well. I have long admitted you have way more patience than I do. I usually feel that it's akin to riding one of those playground carousels - no matter how hard you push, you always end up in the exact same place. Please carry on.

How about Euglena? (neither an animal nor a plant) and other protists? Bacteria?

Correction: Evidence cannot be valid evidence in Faith's eyes if it contradicts what Faith thinks God says. She must rethink it and make it conform to what she thinks God has said. You are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts.

Let me see if I have this straight. Paulk does not have the authority to say what contradicts God or not but you do?
No wonder we can't get anywhere. You speak for God and the rest of us - well, all we have is logic. This does seem to be an exercise in futility. Why study how things work at all if the final answer is "God did it, I believe it, that settles it." Why do you even debate us folks who are so blinded by our own God given rational minds that we can't accept what a person who speaks for God is saying?

I might also point out that many of those "millions through the centuries" also accepted, based on the Bible that:The sun revolves around the earth.
The earth is flat.
Slavery is ok, in fact, slaves should obey their masters.
It is ok for a man to have several wives.
It is ok for men to treat women as property.
Black people are the son of Ham and therefore cursed and it is ok to be mean to them and even enslave them.
God commanded the Israelites to kill everyone in Caananite cities, including women, children and doddering old men. This was not only ok but REQUIRED because God commanded it.Besides, the truth is not determined by majority rule so the fact that millions might have accepted something does not mean it is true.

Because those carousels can also provide life to a village. In this case it is not for Faith's benefit, but riding the carousel is still doing good, doing GOD's work.Faith's ideas on the evolution of this earth are totally wrong and there is no possibility of changing her mind, but there are also many lurkers here at EvC, ones whose minds have not yet atrophied, who may be opposing the concept of old earth and evolution because they believe like Faith, that it goes against the word of GOD.What we do, when riding the carousel, is pump knowledge up to be distributed like lifesaving water to the villagers here. We show them that many Christians, in fact almost every major Christian Church, have no problems with either an old earth or evolution. we show the lurkers that an old earth and evolution, instead of countering the word of GOD, are the Word Of GOD, writ BY GOD, in GOD's hand.The Universe is the production of GOD and by studying His universe we learn more about how GOD did it. In the words of the Clergy Letter, currently signed and endorsed by over 10,000 US Christian Clergy: Yes, we may well be like children riding the playground carousel, but hopefully the water we pump up will bring new life and knowledge to the parched fields of YECs and Biblical Creationists.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Let's try to get this thread back on topic.Most of the recent posts should have been in ad-hoc hyper-evolution arguments regarding "the fall".

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We are talking about evidence and falsifiablity. Science utilizes something of a cybernetic approach to the developement of theories. Mistakes are made, lots of them, and corrections are applied by peer review, review of evidence, new evidence, better experiments, new data, new evidence, new theories, better tools either technological or theoretical.Taking the universe as God's work it's clearly not something humans made. The collection of copies of copies of scrolls that is called the Bible is clearly something written by the hands of humans in human languages with human ideas. It is a human produced artifact. The universe is not. The actual universe takes precedence over the theories of humans.lfenABE: Ian, if you wish to reply I have copied this over to the admin advised thread:ad-hoc hyper-evolution arguments regarding "the fall"Edited by lfen, : corrected misspelling of precedence as precedents.Edited by lfen, : No reason given.

Actually, it must, because if it disagrees with what He revealed in His word, it is wrong somewhere. Not anywhere near as precisely as everyone likes to pretend, but in any case the interpretation of the results must be erroneous. Uh huh, and nobody wants it to stop. Some day we'll know what it all means. There's nothing testable and falsifiable about the age of something whose beginning was not witnessed and can't be marked, but only known by inference. He did indeed do it the way it is, and it certainly isn't human beings who want it to be other than science says, since people trust science/their own intellect more than God as a rule. It's His own word that disagrees with science. Yes, in the minds of many, but not in reality. Clever reversal of the truth about where the human hubris is operating. Oops, sorry. OFF TOPIC * OFF TOPIC. Back to the topic which is THE GENETIC INHERITANCE OF SINEdited by Faith, : No reason given.

You have not produced evidence against predation's starting after the Fall. I suggested another interpretation in another context. You changed the context. Nobody said fossils don't exist that show all kinds of things. And yes it's about interpretation of evidence. Sometimes one can talk casually. This is a Faith and Belief forum by the way, not Science. Your considerations are really totally off topic here.

Would you please get something? SCIENCE IS NOT THE UNIVERSE. THE UNIVERSE IS GOD'S CREATION BUT SCIENCE IS MAN-MADE. STOP ACTING AS IF SCIENCE WERE GOD WHO CAN READ THE CREATION. IT'S NOT AND IT GETS IT WRONG BECAUSE IT'S MAN-MADE. You and others here keep repeating this ridiculously false claim.SCIENCE IS NOT GOD.SCIENCE IS NOT THE UNIVERSE.SCIENCE IS HUMAN INTELLECT.FALLIBLE. It is known to have been inspired by God Himself. It is not a mere human artifact. It does NOT have human ideas. The revelations in it are stratospherically above human ideas. Yes, it takes precedence OVER SCIENCE for that reason.And the Bible is God's word. You are asserting falsehoods galore here.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Contrary to your desires the Faith and Belief forum does not rule out scientific evidence. And in deference to the topic I don't intend to get into detailed discussions here. But the fact is that evidence exists supporting the idea that trilobites became extinct long before there were any humans.Are you going to admit to that ? If not, why not ?

I avoid the science threads because I'm getting to the point where I hate science and hate scientists. Rude arrogant people. Something I've learned at EvC.What is the evidence you are talking about?