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Author Topic:   God vs. Science
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 104 of 164 (455873)
02-14-2008 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Taz
02-14-2008 1:20 AM


Taz writes:
That's what evolution is. Very small minute (tiny) changes in the allele frequencies of populations that over eons of time would inevitably add up to large changes.
In the past, people have nitpicked my analogy and say it's impossible to walk for a thousand miles. If this is what you intend to do, make sure to visit this site first.
People used to walk for thousands and thousands of miles before the invention of automobiles, you know.
1. The problem with this analogy is if one takes a long walk a step at a time, the trail can be traced and reproduced all the way back to the point of departure which is not the case with evolution.
2. As for the auto analogy, the same applies. We know it began with the wheel to the chariot etc. Then came the Industrial Revolution and the auto. Again, every step of every make of auto has been recorded in history so as to verify all the way back to the wheel. Not so with evolution.
3. Your analogies imply ID.
4. Whoever is telling to you that a normal person cannot walk 1000 miles?
ABE: Btw, so far as your 2nd analogy goes relative to your position on abiogenesis, perhaps the wheel can be analogous to abiogenesis. Without abiogenesis, no evolution.
We don't agree on much, but your contribution to the debates is appreciated.
Edited by Buzsaw, : ABE:

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Taz, posted 02-14-2008 1:20 AM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Wounded King, posted 02-14-2008 11:11 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 106 by Rahvin, posted 02-14-2008 11:13 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 146 of 164 (456936)
02-20-2008 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Wounded King
02-14-2008 11:11 AM


Traceable Trails
WK writes:
All the time? Every step? In every case?
This sounds like pure hyperbole.
My statement applies for all practical purposes. For example the noteworthy trails such as the Oregon Trail, Louis & Clarks's expoditions and such all have been by foot and traceable. It also applies to nearly all trails we remember in out past which we have taken. For example when I lived in Wyoming as a youth we would hike or horseback miles back into the Windriver Range of the Rockies following a tree blazed trail. These trails were traceable come rain or come snow.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Wounded King, posted 02-14-2008 11:11 AM Wounded King has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 147 of 164 (456940)
02-20-2008 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Rahvin
02-14-2008 11:13 AM


Rahvin writes:
However, to return to the "many steps" analogy, we can predict that, looking backwards, we should eventually see some steps, somewhere. We do see them, even if we don't see all of them, and they look exactly as we would expect if we had taken a long walk.
Imo, that's a stretch.
Buzsaw writes:
3. Your analogies imply ID.
How so?
The alleged steps of evolution progress on a trail into complexity, order and intelligence.
Buzsaw writes:
4. Whoever is telling to you that a normal person cannot walk 1000 miles?
Those who claim "micro" evolution cannot become "macro" evolution are insisting that something prevents small changes from adding up to changes large enough to result in seperate species. It's like saying that something will prevent me from reaching a certain distance by walking - and yet Creationists and IDists insist that there is something preventing "macro" evolution, without proposing any mechanism that would do so.
All we're claiming is that there's not enough traceable steps to convince us that you have enough to trace it all the way back to the primodial soup. (My question to Taz was to assertain which creos were alleging that a man could not walk a thousand miles. It appeared to me as a play on his part to make fools out of creos which he tends to do at every opportunity.)
It would be more like "we don't know how we got the wheel. Maybe somebody found a wheel, maybe "god" gave it to us, and maybe a space alien gave it to us. Or maybe some smart guy figured it out after watching a rock roll downhill." Evolution only requires life, not abiogenesis. Evolution fits just as well regardless of what originally brought life to Earth.
My point was no wheel, no automobile as in, no abiogenesis, no evolution, no matter how you cut it. That's all I was saying. How it came about was irrevelant to my comment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Rahvin, posted 02-14-2008 11:13 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Rahvin, posted 02-20-2008 9:01 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 149 of 164 (456963)
02-21-2008 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Rahvin
02-20-2008 9:01 PM


Rahvin writes:
Again, you took an analogy too far.
OK Rahvin. So long as you see it all as a dead horse no use in me wasting our time beating it.
I'm just one of a host of creationists including some educated physicists and biologists who regard your alleged trail as a stretch.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Rahvin, posted 02-20-2008 9:01 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 163 of 164 (457454)
02-23-2008 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Taz
02-21-2008 10:43 AM


Taz writes:
So god sacrificed himself to himself in order for himself to forgive our sins?
PS This isn't a cranky question.
Applying to topic, that notion is neither Biblical, logical and perhaps in some respects not scientific. Jehovah god is not Jehovah's earth born son Jesus whom Jehovah sent to earth via the multipresent spirit of Jehovah and Jesus, nor is earth born Jesus Jehovah god the father. Presently each entity has a different location, Jehovah god sitting on the throne of Heaven and the son Jesus on the right hand of the father, Jehovah.
Jesus is awaiting time (which according to Matthew 24:36 only the father; not the son knows ASV) to descend to earth at his prophesied 2nd advent to the throne of David on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 10:43 AM Taz has not replied

  
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