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Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2964 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 331 of 451 (779660)
03-06-2016 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by frako
03-06-2016 6:19 PM


As long as Jesus lay in the tomb, he was just another tragic religious figure who suffered a martyr’s death. 
In fact, Paul tells us that the resurrection is the greatest display of God’s power ever to be demonstrated, nor can it ever be surpassed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by frako, posted 03-06-2016 6:19 PM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 9:57 PM Bob Bobber has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 332 of 451 (779661)
03-06-2016 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Bob Bobber
03-06-2016 9:35 PM


Bob Bobber writes:
As long as Jesus lay in the tomb, he was just another tragic religious figure who suffered a martyr’s death. 
In fact, Paul tells us that the resurrection is the greatest display of God’s power ever to be demonstrated, nor can it ever be surpassed.
Except of course for the fact that resurrection was not at all uncommon in the Bible stories. Happened again and again to quite a few folk. There was nothing really unusual or unique about Jesus resurrection.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 9:35 PM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 10:07 PM jar has replied
 Message 334 by GDR, posted 03-06-2016 10:13 PM jar has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2964 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 333 of 451 (779663)
03-06-2016 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by jar
03-06-2016 9:57 PM


But Paul’s statement that Jesus’ resurrection was the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep, the expression first fruits has little meaning for today’s urban dwellers. In Bible times, it had a rich meaning because it referred to the first produce of the harvest, which was offered in sacrifice to God to express gratitude for granting a new harvest. 

Thus, the first fruits, which were brought to the Temple, were seen not as mere hope of a new harvest, but as its actual beginning. Jesus’ resurrection, then, is the first fruits in the sense that it has made the resurrection of believers not a mere possibility, but a certainty.

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 Message 332 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 9:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:13 PM Bob Bobber has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 334 of 451 (779664)
03-06-2016 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by jar
03-06-2016 9:57 PM


jar writes:
Except of course for the fact that resurrection was not at all uncommon in the Bible stories. Happened again and again to quite a few folk. There was nothing really unusual or unique about Jesus resurrection.
Again you confuse resurrection with resuscitation. Sure there are stories that people were brought back to life but not in a new physicality and without their death being put off permanently. The resurrection of Jesus was seen as a foretaste of the resurrection of the cosmos at the end of time.
The whole NT is made up of people trying to understand just what it was that God had to say and what He was doing by resurrecting Jesus.
Sure you don't have to believe in the resurrection but if you are right the whole NT isn't worth any more than the writings about Mahattma Gandhi. It also means that Jesus was highly delusional and I would see no reason to follow someone like that.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

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 Message 332 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 9:57 PM jar has replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 335 of 451 (779665)
03-06-2016 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by Bob Bobber
03-06-2016 10:07 PM


Yes, Paul used that as part of his marketing spiel yet never offered any support or evidence. It, like so many of Paul's marketing slogans simply does not stand up to examination.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 10:07 PM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 10:19 PM jar has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2964 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 336 of 451 (779666)
03-06-2016 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by jar
03-06-2016 10:13 PM


But who took your sin debt? Jesus Christ! Who paid it? Jesus Christ! How much of it did he pay? All of it before you were ever born! Reconciliation has to do with sin debt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:13 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:20 PM Bob Bobber has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 337 of 451 (779667)
03-06-2016 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by GDR
03-06-2016 10:13 PM


GDR writes:
Again you confuse resurrection with resuscitation. Sure there are stories that people were brought back to life but not in a new physicality and without their death being put off permanently. The resurrection of Jesus was seen as a foretaste of the resurrection of the cosmos at the end of time.
No, I do not confuse the two.
GDR writes:
The whole NT is made up of people trying to understand just what it was that God had to say and what He was doing by resurrecting Jesus.
If so, it seems an enormous waste of time and energy. How is Jesus resurrection any different than any of the other resurrections in the Bible stories?
GDR writes:
Sure you don't have to believe in the resurrection but if you are right the whole NT isn't worth any more than the writings about Mahattma Gandhi. It also means that Jesus was highly delusional and I would see no reason to follow someone like that.
That is almost true, but I would have used the writings of the Buddha instead. And no, it does not mean Jesus was delusional although it's very likely some of those recording the tales were.
It means that considering Jesus death as the sacrifice is in error. If though you consider Jesus life the sacrifice all fits together and does not make God look stupid.
Edited by jar, : fix quote

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 334 by GDR, posted 03-06-2016 10:13 PM GDR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 338 of 451 (779668)
03-06-2016 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by Bob Bobber
03-06-2016 10:19 PM


But who took your sin debt? Jesus Christ! Who paid it? Jesus Christ! How much of it did he pay? All of it before you were ever born! Reconciliation has to do with sin debt.
Yawn.
Thank God no one took my sin debt.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 10:19 PM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 10:23 PM jar has replied
 Message 353 by Phat, posted 03-07-2016 4:03 PM jar has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2964 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 339 of 451 (779669)
03-06-2016 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by jar
03-06-2016 10:20 PM


I do not know if you grasp the full scope of what predestination means? God did not predetermine to cause some individuals to belief unto eternal life, he predetermined to conform everyone who believes to his son.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:28 PM Bob Bobber has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 340 of 451 (779670)
03-06-2016 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by Bob Bobber
03-06-2016 10:23 PM


Yes, that is certainly one of the brands of Christianity that is marketed, the FUD branch and Kiss Hanks Ass branch.
It is that God not the only branch of Christianity.
It is a branch that markets an evil, despicable God that should be opposed by any moral creature.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 10:23 PM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 10:41 PM jar has replied
 Message 343 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-07-2016 12:10 AM jar has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2964 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 341 of 451 (779671)
03-06-2016 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by jar
03-06-2016 10:28 PM


But reconciliation simply means a change in status, and it is a major issue recognizing reconciliation. Reconciliation from God’s advantage point is an accomplished fact, and God is reconciled where the totality of the sin debt of all men is concerned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 11:15 PM Bob Bobber has not replied
 Message 347 by Pressie, posted 03-07-2016 5:52 AM Bob Bobber has not replied
 Message 348 by jar, posted 03-07-2016 8:42 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2964 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 342 of 451 (779675)
03-06-2016 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by Bob Bobber
03-06-2016 10:41 PM


But you are right, there are pastors who understand God’s grace who are reluctant to preach grace, because grace will lead to a license to sin. Many of these same pastors in an effort to reduce sinning, they revert to preaching law, thinking that’s going to solve the problem. 

They want to scare the sin out of people, put their salvation on the line, dangle that up in front of them and scare them with a conditional salvation and that will straighten them up. So they stop preaching grace, as if not preaching grace is going stop people from sinning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-06-2016 10:41 PM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2964 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 343 of 451 (779679)
03-07-2016 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 340 by jar
03-06-2016 10:28 PM


But you are so right about the marketing. Paul was never about starting a new religion. There’s no Christianity in Paul’s letters. There are no Christians in Paul’s letters. You can’t find the word. You can’t find the concept.
But check out this persons marketing on this discussion I am in. People ARE Mixing the Gospels Together! | GON Forum
This person wants their question answered. This person is going to get mad at me, because I know if I answerer that question, that person is going to power dump a bunch of out of context versus on me. The power dump is their marketing, what are you thoughts?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 03-06-2016 10:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-07-2016 12:26 AM Bob Bobber has replied
 Message 349 by jar, posted 03-07-2016 8:57 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2964 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 344 of 451 (779680)
03-07-2016 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by Bob Bobber
03-07-2016 12:10 AM


My point about marketing is, watch this 'hayseed theology', this person wants answers to questions. This person want to theology schools to learn how to answer those questions. So far this person wants me to answer two questions, but why go down their marketing rabbit hole?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-07-2016 12:10 AM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-07-2016 1:26 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2964 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 345 of 451 (779684)
03-07-2016 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 344 by Bob Bobber
03-07-2016 12:26 AM


So this person did not get their questions answered, see what they said? Their is the marketing you are talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by Bob Bobber, posted 03-07-2016 12:26 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
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