Supernatural events

I don't have words for this, so I'll let you guys speak about it.It's a bit lengthy, but you need to see the whole thing.
Gem stones

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Hi, Rat! I just finished watching the whole video, and I can see where it is controversial. These are the questions and conclusions which popped in my mind as I watched the human reactions, careful filming, and overall purpose unfold:1) Whoever the female Pastor is at the first, she represents a similar vein of the Charismatic movement that I grew up with---I am familiar with the type of church she represents. I see no reason to distrust her nor to send her any money. She is quite simply using the gemstone films---whether for glory of God or for attention to her $20,000 website.2) The folks who were in the video seemed to have experienced a sincerely genuine event. Whether or not they were being used or not is not to be concluded. As a Faith/Belief person myself, I see no problem with the gems being genuine, but I wonder why God would choose such a method.The skeptic in me sees a possibility that there is deception.The Believer in me wants the situation to be real, if only to glorify God.I think they oughta break one of em and analyse it, but maybe God wouldnt like that just as He didnt like King David counting the number of Israelites that he had at his disposal that time in the O.T.Conclusion: I have no opinion one way or the other--just like you, Rat. A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign...and I'm thinking that many people connected with this situation will miss the overall message (Glorify God) and concentrate on the gems themselves.I will say, however, that for all the empirical skeptics out there, I believe that it could happen, though it is more certainly unlikely.

I don't really see anything to discuss - you have:1) A tall tale2) followed by an "expert" who leaps straight to the conclusion - yep those came from god BEFORE he even talks about the stones.There is nothing here to work with.

If it walks like a con job, and quacks like a con job -- it's a con job.Much of the movie is spent in giving you alll kinds of theological argumentss to persuade you to suspend your normal skepticism, and accept the tale without questioning it. I guess that works for some folk, but it makes me highly suspicious.

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It's a common trick - she starts with "it could be fake" which everyone sensible agrees with and then as she moves through her spiel, it's to get you in the right frame of mind for the "evidence".Politicians use the same trick, you start with statements that everyone in your audience will agree with ("we all agree that schools should be one of our top priority") and you repeat for a very statements ("We all want to see the best for nation's Hospitals) and then it gets everyone in the right mental place when you want to introduce ideas that people might resist.

Do you have the same reaction to the virgin Mary's face on a tortilla?

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I can't watch the video but if it's about gems magically appearing, it reminds me of the gold that magically appears in people's teeth in some charismatic circles. It also reminds me of some tricks that Hindu shamans can do.

Those are just examples of people wanting so badly to believe something---anything---that they make the connection between a burn mark on a Tortilla and a religious icon.The only reason that I believe that there is any chance that the gemstones could be authentic is because I don't sense a deliberate con job. Perhaps there are cons (manning the cameras, paying for the video,etc) who are unseen behind the scenes, however.

If I remember correctly, that was $20,000 per month. That's quite a bit to pay for a web site. For comparison, see Message 2. Admittedly, Percy is also volunteering his time. But even if he were to pay himself a salary for the time he spends on EvC, it would be significanly less than $20,000 per month.At that price, we can assume a somewhat elaborate web site. Now why would God happen to pick such an elaborate web site to reveal his miracles? That's another reason for my suspicions and skepticism.

And sadly, it quite probably is. The skeptic in me asks many questions. The miracle itself is not the issue.(alleged miracle)
The questions?

Why would a Holy "miracle" come only to some hayseed who just happened to belong to a charismatic church?

Why would the sighting of angels be an afterthought? To me, that would supercede any "gem" or diamond that happened to fall. This is my number one skepticism.

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why is the video even made?

IIRC, Jesus was all about forgoing the material riches of this world, yes? The camel and the eye of the needle deal, etc. It seems incongruous at best that a diety who said such things would use gemstones to send a message. Or gold teeth, gold dust, anything of that nature. It actually makes more sense to me that such a person would send a message to some poor family, barely ekeing by, using a tortilla or a grilled cheese sandwich.On the other hand, it's easy to understand why a con man would.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

My jaw dropped as I watched this video. I live in Coeur d'Alene, the place where this miracle is happening! I have not heard of this story before. I have not even heard of this church. The local press has not mentioned this story.Although, I do recognize the name of the webmaster of the church's website. He once worked for me as a summer intern. So I may be able to get some inside information.This EvC Detective is on the case. Stay tuned for an update.Edited by troxelso, : No reason given.

How is that different from people who want so badly to believe in miracles that they'll buy any kind of snake-oil?(By the way, I notice that you capitalized the Holy Tortilla. Interesting. ) So a "deliberate con job" presenter would be wearing a plaid suit and saying, "Come on down and getcher gen-you-wine miracle gemstones. Get 'em while they last. Only one thin dime, the tenth part of a dollar. Don't pay until 2008...."The word "con" comes from "confidence", you know.

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they are so tastey he had to?