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Author Topic:   Pascal's Wager - Any Way to Live a Life
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 53 of 126 (433603)
11-12-2007 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by nator
11-09-2007 6:59 AM


Re: How I came to believe the stuff I do
Nator writes:
The thing is, logic, reason, and evidence are there, and work, no matter if you "believe in" them or not
I agree. But you can believe in Christ and observe them. Sorry to take the wind out of your sales. Be careful what you sell, a few cleverer theists won't automatically buy.
A lot of faith is decision and I know from experience that when I became atheist, it was because of doubt and a defeatest attitude. I then chose to believe again - I even remember the moment.
Believers are tough. To doubt and disbelieve is to climb off the saddle when the mountain pass gets steep. To incorporate the positive requires positive action. Examples;
(I want to be a vet. I need to qualify, work hard. As opposed to the contrary, to not be a vet, well - that equals a lack of positive effort as all you do is quit.)
(Be a cook/knitter. I'll let you fill in the rest..............................................)
But the knife in the guts was when I decided to not give up and to be, as the bible states, an overcomer.
I was also born into the position of secular indifference as regards religion.
Science and logic don't support, "Not God" and "leave intelligence at the door". INFACT, you are saying that it is your opinion that this is the case.
But alas, it is clearly false.
Nator writes:
God helps people who make efforts to avoid using their intelligence?
Perhaps now a new pair of reading glasses are in order Shraff. You show signs of not understanding Phat's pragmatics. Allow me to expound for you; We presuppose that God exists and under that premise, he knows better, as we believe he is omniscient. That means that we don't think YOU can out-think the creator.
That's what it means.
You are defining anyone who disagrees with your opinions and believes in God as unintelligent. That is arrogant and transparent and illogical.
But know this; you have nothing but opinion that favours your own freethinking ideology of disbelief, as science and logic don't claim to support your position in the least.
You are conflating logic and science with your ideology like your particular ideology owns science and logic.
Completely false I am afraid. it is infacy that generally freethinking educated atheists observe logic and science.(Ben or Modulous for example, rational logical folk).
Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

I engaged in reductio ad absurdum at the request of my disfunctional compulsive contaminatrix that regurgitates anomolous fallacious recognition processes in random bouts of severe over-thought, thereby contained via the irrefutability cells in my left hemisphere. ~ mike the wiz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by nator, posted 11-09-2007 6:59 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by nator, posted 11-12-2007 5:52 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 56 by crashfrog, posted 11-12-2007 7:01 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 60 by Rrhain, posted 11-12-2007 11:23 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 61 of 126 (433854)
11-13-2007 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Rrhain
11-12-2007 11:23 PM


Re: How I came to believe the stuff I do
And once again, you fall for the fallacy of the wager: Thinking you understand god's motivations, intentions, and characteristics
Audiater et altera pars.
I don't think that. Infact it's the opposite, LOL. We trust God because he is God. Nothing can change that reality if it is reality.
I "trust" God because I don't understand everything like freethinkers think they do.
It has nothing to do with pascal's wager. It's an assumption, and a logical one, that if God exists, he knows better than us and we can trust in him.
Nothing to do with Pascal. First understand why things are fallacious before making mistakes like that.
A none-claim isn't a fallacy. Trusting in God isn't a fallacy. An argument/position of asserting something to be true is a fallacy either formally or informally if found to be unsound.
Stop jumping to conclusion from lack of information.
Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Rrhain, posted 11-12-2007 11:23 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by nator, posted 11-13-2007 7:30 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 65 by Rrhain, posted 11-13-2007 11:23 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 66 by Granny Magda, posted 11-15-2007 8:50 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 62 of 126 (433856)
11-13-2007 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by nator
11-12-2007 5:52 PM


Re: How I came to believe the stuff I do
Not really.
Doubt is the only thing that allows us to change and take in new information.
Without doubt, we stagnate.
Doubt is one of the greatest gifts we have as thinking creatures.
Really.
Even the bible tells us to doubt or use caution. What matters is that to doubt in God is easy.
There's no evidence. You can't have it both ways. You can't claim and equate God to fairies and then change your statement when mike says something that is favourable to that assumption.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by nator, posted 11-12-2007 5:52 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by nator, posted 11-13-2007 7:32 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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