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Author | Topic: Spiritual Warfare Fight Thread... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: I also see one true church. Anyone can hang a shingle and "build" a church. There hypothetically could be a bowling club that calls themselves a bowling club yet know nothing about bowling, I suppose. The true church knows (Or believes) their figurehead. He arguably existed before they did and He inspires them...they inspire each other because of Him. I would argue...in conclusion...that Jesus is an acting head. I do not see Him as a figurehead. But the evidence is that there is no such thing as one true church. There is the Church founded by Jesus which is the Roman Catholic Church and a few other churches that are part of that Apostolic Tradition but most Christian churches just hung out a shingle and called themselves Christian.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Think about it, though. The Jewish religion was formed in a culture through a long amount of time. The Christian religion, in contrast, was formed virtually instantly after the death(burial and resurrection) of its leader. Had the leader been just another "failed Messiah" the movement logically should have died off. Thats my basic argument. The problem there Phat is what you assert is just not true. Christianity was just another Jewish sect for hundreds of years and it developed over the centuries just like any religion does. It pretty much did die out and became pretty insignificant until it was adopted as a State Religion and imposed by force and coercion. The way it survived the "Failed Messiah" challenge was to change the meaning on messiah beyond all recognition. But even under the NewSpeak Christian definition of messiah Jesus is still a failed messiah.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: So you are telling me that Christianity was statistically insignificant until Constantine had his vision? Duly noted. It's more than that even. Christianity might well have died out throughout most of its history had it not been for the continued political, economic benefits and coercion inherent in a State religion. Christianity was spread by force; first by Rome, later by western European monarchs and then by colonialists to Asia and the new world.
Phat writes: So to Jews, Jesus has no meaning? Not quite. Jesus is recognized as a prophet by both Islam and Judaism. Remember that the test of a messiah is what the person did. What someone may do or will do is irrelevant as a test of whether someone is a messiah. While I might believe that Jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead and that Hid kingdom will have no end (sound familiar to you? ) the reality is that that is simply and acknowledgement that Jesus is so far a failed messiah. It was not so much the Gospel that spread Christianity but rather the consequences for not adopting Christianity. Look at US history and list the number of openly atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu have been elected to office? Ask yourself if the coercion continues today?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: I challenge your assertion that Jesus was a failed Messiah. Then provide evidence of what Jesus did that would make Jesus a messiah? Did he create and head a Jewish State? Did he conquer all and end war? Inquiring minds want to know.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Answer the question. The questions were:
Then provide evidence of what Jesus did that would make Jesus a messiah? Did he create and head a Jewish State? Did he conquer all and end war? Your response of "Originally, Jesus own commission was only for the Jews. " has nothing to do with the question and unfortunately simply shows that you cannot or will not actually read the Bible. Not only did you try to palm the pea but you also quote mined one small part of a chapter but did not bother to finish reading. This is classic CCoI behavior, find only the pieces parts that support their position and ignore all the parts that refute it. Here is the rest of the section, the stuff you left out:
quote: So your very own source says that Jesus went beyond just the Jews. Nor does any of that have any relation to what the Great Commission charges us to do. So back to the questions. The Jewish Messiah would set up and rule a Jewish State, end war and rule the whole world. Did Jesus so that? Edited by jar, : appalin spallinAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes, in the Talmud there are a couple passages that may refer to Jesus as being prophetic and doing wonders, but certainly not a major prophet and the connection is tenuous at best.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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I'm not sure how to answer that. Do I know of a passage in the Talmud that says "Jesus is a prophet!" No. Are there passages that mention a miracle worker who speaks prophetically? Sure, both in the Talmud and also in the New Testament. Some in Luke come to mind. Remember the Hebrews have a history of ignoring prophets and even killing them.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So let's use the term Rabbi instead of Prophet. Is that better? The very section you link includes such assertions.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
In the New Testament Jesus is referred to as Rabbi in passages that are attributed to being written by Jews. I hope you're having fun with this because it seems pretty silly.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: What meaning does Jesus have to Jews? And how much? Is it even the same kind of meaning that Phat was asking about? Well Rabbi means a teacher. Does that help? I often have absolutely no idea what Phat is asking about.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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