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Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 587 of 670 (762210)
07-09-2015 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 586 by Faith
07-09-2015 3:45 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Faith writes:

You really should throw yours away since it's been misleading you for some time by telling you the Bible has lies in it.

Not lies Faith (although that's also likely) but errors, falsehoods, contradictions and irrelevancies.

Remember Faith, you have never explained how two fowl and seven fowl are the same number of fowls.

Faith, unlike "Biblical Christians" many of us actually read what is written and believe that the Bible really says what it says.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 586 by Faith, posted 07-09-2015 3:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 588 by Faith, posted 07-09-2015 4:03 PM jar has acknowledged this reply
 Message 609 by Mal, posted 07-13-2015 10:57 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26295
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 588 of 670 (762213)
07-09-2015 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 587 by jar
07-09-2015 3:59 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
I explained the birds nonsense aeons ago. You wrongly divide the word of truth and you lack the spiritual intuition to know it.

OK so your brain invents errors rather than lies.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by jar, posted 07-09-2015 3:59 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 622 by ramoss, posted 07-13-2015 2:28 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13636
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 589 of 670 (762279)
07-10-2015 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 579 by Faith
07-09-2015 1:55 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Faith writes:

He's alive in the sense that He is actually alive and sitting at the right hand of the Father in heaven;


That's a tautology: He's alive in the sense that He's alive. Is he biologically alive?

Faith writes:

and He's alive in the sense that sometimes we are blessed enough to experience His presence and to receive both indirect and direct communications from Him.


The same could be said of Shakespeare.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 579 by Faith, posted 07-09-2015 1:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 590 by Phat, posted 07-11-2015 1:52 AM ringo has responded
 Message 591 by Faith, posted 07-11-2015 11:30 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9753
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 590 of 670 (762332)
07-11-2015 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 589 by ringo
07-10-2015 12:00 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
ringo writes:

The same could be said of Shakespeare.

The same could be said of anyone...but most often is said about jesus.

Are that many people unsure about what they feel or experience?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by ringo, posted 07-10-2015 12:00 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 592 by ringo, posted 07-11-2015 12:11 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26295
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 591 of 670 (762347)
07-11-2015 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 589 by ringo
07-10-2015 12:00 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
He's alive in the sense that He is actually alive and sitting at the right hand of the Father in heaven;

That's a tautology: He's alive in the sense that He's alive. Is he biologically alive?

"Sitting" suggests biological aliveness to me, not sure why it doesn't to you. Scripture says He's sitting next to the Father and praying for us. Sounds like a biological person to me, who is actually doing things persons might do. I always picture Him as a person I'm going to meet some day in bodily form.

and He's alive in the sense that sometimes we are blessed enough to experience His presence and to receive both indirect and direct communications from Him.

The same could be said of Shakespeare.

It could?

You experience Shakespeare's presence? Without actually reading something he wrote? What does he say to you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by ringo, posted 07-10-2015 12:00 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 593 by ringo, posted 07-11-2015 12:16 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13636
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 592 of 670 (762355)
07-11-2015 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 590 by Phat
07-11-2015 1:52 AM


Re: Jesus is alive
Phat writes:

The same could be said of anyone...but most often is said about jesus.


I don't think that's true. In your experience, Jesus may be the one who seems "most alive".

Phat writes:

Are that many people unsure about what they feel or experience?


I hope so. Being too sure of yourself - especially about things that can not be verified - is a dangerous thing.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by Phat, posted 07-11-2015 1:52 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13636
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 593 of 670 (762357)
07-11-2015 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 591 by Faith
07-11-2015 11:30 AM


Re: Jesus is alive
Faith writes:

"Sitting" suggests biological aliveness to me, not sure why it doesn't to you.


Because I have a book "sitting" on my coffee table and I don't consider it biologically alive.

Faith writes:

You experience Shakespeare's presence? Without actually reading something he wrote?


You experience Jesus' presence without actually reading something he wrote?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 591 by Faith, posted 07-11-2015 11:30 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 594 by Faith, posted 07-11-2015 12:23 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26295
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 594 of 670 (762360)
07-11-2015 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 593 by ringo
07-11-2015 12:16 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Of course books and persons do habitually "sit" in different ways, the one nonbiologically and the other biologically. But I'm tired of this semantic nonsense ringo, you seem to be determined to twist whatever anyone says. Christians experience the actual presence of God at times and you apparently don't want to know about it. So OK, don't know about it then.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 593 by ringo, posted 07-11-2015 12:16 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 595 by ringo, posted 07-11-2015 12:39 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13636
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 595 of 670 (762365)
07-11-2015 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 594 by Faith
07-11-2015 12:23 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Faith writes:

But I'm tired of this semantic nonsense ringo, you seem to be determined to twist whatever anyone says.


Yes, I'm determined to get people to look at things in different ways.

Faith writes:

Christians experience the actual presence of God at times and you apparently don't want to know about it.


That has nothing to do with anything I said. As I understand it, most Christians don't think Jesus is biologically alive today; I was just trying to clarify whether or not you do.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 594 by Faith, posted 07-11-2015 12:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 596 by Faith, posted 07-11-2015 1:01 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26295
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 596 of 670 (762368)
07-11-2015 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 595 by ringo
07-11-2015 12:39 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
"most Christians?" Weird. He has a new glorified body but He DOES have a body, which ought to make him "biologically alive" in any reasonable sense. He said He's not a spirit, He ate a fish in His resurrection body, how much more biological can you get?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 595 by ringo, posted 07-11-2015 12:39 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 597 by jar, posted 07-11-2015 1:10 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 598 by ringo, posted 07-11-2015 1:12 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 597 of 670 (762372)
07-11-2015 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 596 by Faith
07-11-2015 1:01 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Faith writes:

"most Christians?" Weird. He has a new glorified body but He DOES have a body, which ought to make him "biologically alive" in any reasonable sense. He said He's not a spirit, He ate a fish in His resurrection body, how much more biological can you get?

You really haven't read the Bible have you Faith?

The Bible is wonderfully unclear and contradictory about Jesus existence after resurrection and before ascension and is totally vague and ambiguous about Jesus physical state or status after the ascension.

There i nothing to suggest that there really is some physical thrones or some physical thing to sit on or anything more than poetic imagery.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 596 by Faith, posted 07-11-2015 1:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13636
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 598 of 670 (762374)
07-11-2015 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 596 by Faith
07-11-2015 1:01 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Faith writes:

He said He's not a spirit, He ate a fish in His resurrection body, how much more biological can you get?


Yes, he was biologically alive after the resurrection but only until the ascension. It doesn't make much sense to me that he would still be eating and sleeping today.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 596 by Faith, posted 07-11-2015 1:01 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 599 by Faith, posted 07-11-2015 1:29 PM ringo has responded
 Message 600 by GDR, posted 07-11-2015 4:32 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 601 by Faith, posted 07-11-2015 5:22 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26295
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 599 of 670 (762375)
07-11-2015 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 598 by ringo
07-11-2015 1:12 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Yes, he was biologically alive after the resurrection but only until the ascension. It doesn't make much sense to me that he would still be eating and sleeping today.

What makes sense to YOU isn't something you should be relying on for understanding scripture. Why would He go to such lengths to prove He could eat a fish in His resurrection body if He was not going to continue the practice after His ascension? THAT's what makes no sense. What makes sense is that He was teaching the disciples what to expect of their own glorified state in heaven with Him after the universal resurrection. I don't know about sleeping, nothing is said about that and I would expect there is no sleep in the glorified state myself, but that's just a guess; but eating, yes.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 598 by ringo, posted 07-11-2015 1:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 602 by ringo, posted 07-12-2015 2:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4279
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 600 of 670 (762382)
07-11-2015 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 598 by ringo
07-11-2015 1:12 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Ringo writes:

Yes, he was biologically alive after the resurrection but only until the ascension. It doesn't make much sense to me that he would still be eating and sleeping today.

First off let me say that I view any idea of this as strictly an individuals best subjective guess. The Biblical message is that Jesus is the first born or the prototype of what is in store for mankind at the end of time, when all things are renewed, when heaven and earth become one, when Christ comes again or however you want to put it.

It seems to me though that we don't really have much of an idea how that will work out. If we look at the Jews at the time of Jesus they had all sorts of ideas of what it would look like when Yahweh returned and none of them had it right. I suggest that we are no different.

As an aside, one thing that I think is of interest is that it seems God has chosen to work through humans. When He came to the Jews He did it through the man Jesus. I believe that somehow mankind will be involved in all of this, and that acts of compassion, mercy, justice and love will somehow play into all that happens.

So I think that Jesus remains physical, but how His new physicality in His dimension, universe or whatever relates to our own is strictly speculation. This of course includes sleeping and eating.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 598 by ringo, posted 07-11-2015 1:12 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26295
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 601 of 670 (762388)
07-11-2015 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 598 by ringo
07-11-2015 1:12 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Job, some 2000 years BC, said he knew his Redeemer was alive, and he expected to see Him in His body standing on the earth at the end, Job himself expecting to be resurrected and in his own body at the same time:

Job 19:25-27

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Nothing about eating and sleeping but a clear image of a bodily Redeemer, whom Job would have understood to be God Himself in the flesh.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 598 by ringo, posted 07-11-2015 1:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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