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Author Topic:   The Bible was NOT man made, it was Godly made
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 23 of 320 (395357)
04-16-2007 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Juraikken
04-16-2007 12:01 AM


i'm not tlaking about something so miniscule as
"God called forth Adam from the ground"(original for example)
"God called Adam from the gravel"(translated)
Hang on now, those kind of translational errors can be enormous. Especially when you are dealing with literalists.
Further, you are dealing with translations not just from one language to another, but like a game of telephone, from Aramaeic into Archaic Hebrew into Greek into Latin into German into Victorian English into Modern English. (Yes, I'm sure I've screwed up the order or skipped a step in there, it's an example).
Many people struggle with Shakespeare and that's translating from Old English into New English.
"God called forth Adam from the ground."
"God called Adam from the gravel."
"God pulled Adam from the gravel."
"God pulled Adam from the stones."
"God drew Adam from the stones."
"God drew Adam from stone."
"God shaped Adam from stone."
While the overall idea that "God made Adam" stays intact, the philosophical/cultural ramifications of being pulled out of the Earth vs being chiselled from stone could be very significant.
Given that documents were done by hand, aged, copied, etc. spelling mistakes, punctuation, translations etc were sure to creep in.
Here's a great example of how issues with spacing cause a problem.
In many early texts words run together without spacing - so you get "Godisnowhere"
"God is now here" or "God is nowhere"? Which did the original author mean?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Juraikken, posted 04-16-2007 12:01 AM Juraikken has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by kuresu, posted 04-16-2007 2:14 AM Nuggin has not replied
 Message 28 by Juraikken, posted 04-16-2007 12:18 PM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 29 of 320 (395409)
04-16-2007 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Juraikken
04-16-2007 12:18 PM


Re: point
Clearly you are misunderstanding the problem. Think bigger than EvC debate
Mary was a maiden.
In the Greek this means she was a young girl.
In the English it also implies virginity.
But that implication is not part of the Greek.
So was Mary a virgin before the translation or only after?
What is the "maiden" equivilent in Hebrew? Latin? German?
For a modern example take the word "Macho"
Macho means "manly". But what it means to be a man in Spain is different than what it means to be a man New York City.
Does that mean that the people of NYC can not be "macho", or does it mean that something is lost in the translatioin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Juraikken, posted 04-16-2007 12:18 PM Juraikken has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Juraikken, posted 04-16-2007 12:42 PM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 32 of 320 (395420)
04-16-2007 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Juraikken
04-16-2007 12:42 PM


Re: point
Still kinda missing the point.
There are words in certain languages which have more than one meaning, or even have no translation.
When someone translates, they make their best guess as to what was meant. But this best guess is not always 100% correct.
The more you translate, the more likely you are to drift from the original content. Especially when you are dealing with languages like Hebrew which is full of puns and double meanings.
What we have today as the Bible (hand picked from hundreds of texts and translated in and out of a dozen languages) says more about the evolution of judeo-christian religeous philosophy as it does about the original text.
And that's NOT bad. It's good. In fact, the Bible should change MORE.
Even the Biblical literallists with their "the word of the Bible is infailable" don't burn cattle on an altar because the fragrence is pleasing to God.
The world changes, cultures mature, their religeons need to keep pace

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Juraikken, posted 04-16-2007 12:42 PM Juraikken has replied

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 Message 38 by Juraikken, posted 04-16-2007 7:20 PM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 53 of 320 (395519)
04-16-2007 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Juraikken
04-16-2007 7:20 PM


Re: point
this calls for a new Constitution of the United States, cuz its getting old now.
Um, amendments - heard of them?
lets look into the CONTEXT to understand what the word SHOULD be?
You can not look at the context and tell what the word should be. You can tell what you think the word means. You can tell what you WANT the word to mean. You can tell what the word is likely to not mean. But you can NOT tell what the word should be.
If the sentence was translated into:
Mary was a turnip.
We'd likely say, hrmm, that's probably not right.
But which of these is right -
Mary was a virgin.
Mary was a maiden.
Mary was a pre-pubescent girl.
Mary was a woman of any age who had not yet had children.
You BELIEVE that she was a virgin. But she chould also be an 8 year old. You don't KNOW that she wasn't an 8 year old, because it's a viable meaning of the word.
t is bad to change the bible because that means that YOU, MAN are wanting to change what GOD, NOT MAN has said and done. God never changes his mind, God is constant and what he says stays, you cant change it.
So, when God created the Bible and said things like -
Burn a bull to create a pleasing odor to God
Women should not have ANY contact with men while they are on their periods
Or how about
"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."
Since God is NEVER wrong. And God NEVER changes his mind. And the Bible was created by God. And the Bible is NEVER wrong - How long is your beard?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Juraikken, posted 04-16-2007 7:20 PM Juraikken has not replied

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