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Author Topic:   Buzsaw's Belief Statement
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 59 (347796)
09-09-2006 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ringo
09-06-2006 10:51 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
Ringo writes:

Um... there are still fruit trees around now, aren't there? Where's the change?

OK you win this round. I assumed too much and failed to do my homework. Thanks for he lesson on both the walk and the eats. :)

The part I don't concede on however is on the fall. They still fell from immortality to mortality and fell in status from being garden dressers to full fledged ground tilling sweat of the brow farmers.

Ringo writes:

He'd just beam a smile at them and say, "How can you call this 'work'?"

Nice story, Ringo, but tell it to the coal miner, the lumberjack, the farmers (especially before industrialization machines), the ditchdigger before machines and the rugged fishermen who risked their lives to make their living. It's bonafide ole fashioned sweat of the brow hard labor. On my dad's cattle ranch in Wyo we loathed haying season when you hand handled all the heavy bales of alfalfa and timothy hay, for example.

Ringo writes:

That spirit certainly didn't die in the garden. There are still people who enjoy every minute of their work.

Granted, but that doesn't erase my point.

Ringo writes:

It is easy to make money - unless you want a lot of it.

Tell it to the Muslim work, the Hindu world, the Communist world, as well as the majority of all the rest, deluded American, where the poorest among us are conidered rich to most of the world.

Ringo writes:

I'm a prairie boy. I'd rather have a big sky, a dusty road and my old worn-out sandals. Free choke-cherries, free saskatoons....

Garden of Eden, baby.

Yah, I love my home state, Wyoming, chokecherries, elk steaks, mountain trout and all. Upstate NY nice too. From the description of heaven however, I'll go for it, especially since we'll all exist somewhere different anyhow. It'll definitely beat the torment of hell where no footwear and no chokecherries can exist. :eek:

Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 09-06-2006 10:51 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 09-09-2006 4:20 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 09-09-2006 4:47 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 59 (347801)
09-09-2006 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by nator
09-07-2006 7:22 AM


Re: Brief And Boring?
The implication is that everything was so perfect ecologically that the pests were no problem and that there was so much plush fruit et al that there was no problem of shortage so far as reseeding.

Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by nator, posted 09-07-2006 7:22 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by nator, posted 09-09-2006 6:08 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29183
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 48 of 59 (347807)
09-09-2006 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Buzsaw
09-09-2006 3:35 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
There you go contradicting yourself yet again, buz. In Message 28 you already said:

In fact, A&E never had immortality and so did not lose it.

If Adam and Eve never had immortality how can you claim...

quote:
The part I don't concede on however is on the fall. They still fell from immortality to mortality and fell in status from being garden dressers to full fledged ground tilling sweat of the brow farmers.

There was no Fall from immortality. It is simply not in the Bible.

The second part of your statement is as unsupportable as the first. Garden Dressers? Where exactly is that found in Genesis? What is the difference from having to tend the garden to being a farmer?

Edited by jar, : No reason given.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Buzsaw, posted 09-09-2006 3:35 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Buzsaw, posted 09-16-2006 6:07 PM jar has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13459
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 49 of 59 (347814)
09-09-2006 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Buzsaw
09-09-2006 3:35 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
Buzsaw writes:

Thanks for he lesson on both the walk and the eats.

Well, the lesson was that the human race has become more attuned to God, not less. Since acquiring the knowledge of good and evil, we have become more like God, not less.

quote:
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:

So, until you turn the "fall" into a climb, you really haven't learned the lesson. :)

... the rugged fishermen who risked their lives to make their living.

I have an uncle who used to be a fisherman. Know what he used to do on his day off?

He went fishing.

He fished to earn a living, but he also fished because he loved the work.

I used to know another retired fisherman. Know what he did during his retirement? He built a huge house on a remote island, falling the trees and cutting the lumber himself - all without power tools.

Before he died - well into his nineties, I imagine - he was planning to sail around the world single-handed in a dugout canoe.

So, hard work is just a matter of attitude.

There are still people who enjoy every minute of their work.

Granted, but that doesn't erase my point.

Yeah, it really does. ;)

From the description of heaven however, I'll go for it, especially since we'll all exist somewhere different anyhow. It'll definitely beat the torment of hell where no footwear and no chokecherries can exist.

No need to worry about hell, as long as you feed the hungry, etc.

quote:
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Buzsaw, posted 09-09-2006 3:35 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Buzsaw, posted 09-16-2006 6:22 PM ringo has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2141 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 50 of 59 (347832)
09-09-2006 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Buzsaw
09-09-2006 3:58 PM


Re: Brief And Boring?
quote:
The implication is that everything was so perfect ecologically that the pests were no problem and that there was so much plush fruit et al that there was no problem of shortage so far as reseeding.

But, "pest" is such a loaded term.

If there aren't any thorns, things that would eat roses and raspberries would eat them all.

Thorns are good for the berries, but bad for the caterpillars.

Being bad-tasting is good for caterpillars but bad for the birds that would eat them and feed them to their young.

...etc.

Everything is consumed, and if it is to survive, everything develops some kind of defense against being completely (as, in a whole species) consumed by something else.

Bad things happen in a ecosystem in which there are no checks or balances among the various organisms.

Ever hear of kudsu?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Buzsaw, posted 09-09-2006 3:58 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3090 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 51 of 59 (349531)
09-16-2006 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Buzsaw
08-27-2006 11:23 PM


Re: Post tribulation rapture?
It appears there is more to the pre-trib rapture "if" God himself is blowing his last trump. (kjv 1 Th 4:16) This verse does not mention the angels blowing the trump of God just mentions the voice of the archangel sounding along with the trump of God.

(kjv Zec 9:14) mentions God blowing the trumpet is the last trump about God blowing his last trumpet. If the archangel is shouting then how is he too blowing Gods trumpet (1 Th 4:16). If God himself is blowing his last trump then the raptured church will be the last trump blown by God (pre-trib) and the trumpets of the seven angel are blown by angels (trumps of angels).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Buzsaw, posted 08-27-2006 11:23 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 59 (349653)
09-16-2006 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
09-09-2006 4:20 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
jar writes:

There you go contradicting yourself yet again, buz. In Message 28 you already said:
In fact, A&E never had immortality and so did not lose it.

If Adam and Eve never had immortality how can you claim...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The part I don't concede on however is on the fall. They still fell from immortality to mortality and fell in status from being garden dressers to full fledged ground tilling sweat of the brow farmers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was no Fall from immortality. It is simply not in the Bible.

The second part of your statement is as unsupportable as the first. Garden Dressers? Where exactly is that found in Genesis? What is the difference from having to tend the garden to being a farmer?

Jar, this statement which you cite, "There was no Fall from immortality. It is simply not in the Bible" was Omnivorous's statement in the message I was responding to. I forgot to delete it from my message content before submitting my message. My apologies for this mistake which led you to believe it was my statement.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 09-09-2006 4:20 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 59 (349658)
09-16-2006 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by ringo
09-09-2006 4:47 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
Ringo writes:

Well, the lesson was that the human race has become more attuned to God, not less. Since acquiring the knowledge of good and evil, we have become more like God, not less.

Ringo, knowledge is not all there is about God's image. That the knowledge of evil was added to their beings did not make them more like God. It worked to make them and their descendents more evil, sinful and fallen physically, morally and spiritually.

Ringo writes:

I have an uncle who used to be a fisherman. Know what he used to do on his day off?

He went fishing.

1. And sir, how many working fishermen fish on their time off? Likely your uncle was very unusual in this respect.

2. While these men worked their work was tedious sweat of the brow hard labor, especially for the hired crew.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 09-09-2006 4:47 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 09-16-2006 9:56 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13459
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 54 of 59 (349697)
09-16-2006 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Buzsaw
09-16-2006 6:22 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
Buzsaw writes:

That the knowledge of evil was added to their beings did not make them more like God.

You're contradicting God:

quote:
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Argue with Him. :)


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Buzsaw, posted 09-16-2006 6:22 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 09-17-2006 12:13 AM ringo has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 59 (349713)
09-17-2006 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by ringo
09-16-2006 9:56 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
Whatever. :rolleyes:


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 09-16-2006 9:56 PM ringo has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 11-27-2006 7:51 AM Buzsaw has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9589
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 56 of 59 (366216)
11-27-2006 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Buzsaw
09-17-2006 12:13 AM


Apples and Oranges and Monkeys and Fish
Good Morning, Buzsaw. I wanted to briefly ask you some questions so as to clarify your beliefs, if you don't mind. :) (plus we need some stimulating conversations around this place! :rolleyes: )

Answer these questions for me, if you don't mind:

  • Have your beliefs changed much over the years? Do you think that there is a possibility that they may evolve? (had to use that word! ;) )

  • Do you believe that there is some sort of a spiritual war or dynamic conflict within the human psyche that could be responsible for complicating our search for truth?

  • What do you think of Carlton Pearsons Gospel Of Inclusion? I know that it is similar to how Jar and Ringo believed. Personally, I am open to Gods revelation or refutation of this theology, as I sense an innate trust in Carlton Pearson and see that he is on an honest search and seemingly is not deceived.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 09-17-2006 12:13 AM Buzsaw has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 57 by Buzsaw, posted 12-02-2006 7:05 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
  • Buzsaw
    Inactive Member


    Message 57 of 59 (367512)
    12-02-2006 7:05 PM
    Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
    11-27-2006 7:51 AM


    Re: Apples and Oranges and Monkeys and Fish
    Phat writes:

    Good Morning, Buzsaw. I wanted to briefly ask you some questions so as to clarify your beliefs, if you don't mind. (plus we need some stimulating conversations around this place! )
    Answer these questions for me, if you don't mind:

    Have your beliefs changed much over the years? Do you think that there is a possibility that they may evolve? (had to use that word! )

    Do you believe that there is some sort of a spiritual war or dynamic conflict within the human psyche that could be responsible for complicating our search for truth?

    What do you think of Carlton Pearsons Gospel Of Inclusion? I know that it is similar to how Jar and Ringo believed. Personally, I am open to Gods revelation or refutation of this theology, as I sense an innate trust in Carlton Pearson and see that he is on an honest search and seemingly is not deceived.

    Hi Phat. My apologies for missing this message. I was doing some catching up this evening and noticed your message.

    I've changed my mind a number of times since age 10 when I first became a Christian and a Bible student.

    I became a Christian in a Baptist church in Wyoming in which I was taught most of the evangelical doctrines. I began my studies reading many books by Evangelical authors including much on the prophecies. From this I began to get interested in current events such as the restoration of Israel as prophesied in the Bible. This was happening about the time I first got interested in prophecy. I had three semesters at Bob Jones University where I became inspired to completely dedicate my life to God which helped me tow Christian the line during four years in the Air Force a few years later.

    I then began to more intensly study directly from the scriptures concerning prophecy and other evangelical doctrines, to discover that a significant amount of what I was reading in the published prophecy books did not match the scriptures. This also held true to some of the other doctrines such as the literal renderng of Genesis one, et al. For example, as I've mentioned on occasion, the frist four days were not determined as to length by the sun which was not created until some time in day four, et al.

    These are a few things which have changed as I've progressed in knowledge over the years. If you have anything in particular in mind regarding your question, feel free to specify.

    I have edited in this which I sometimes use as my message signature into my OP of this thread. This pretty much sumarizes my evolved hypothesis on the universe relative to God. This is in lieu of YEC which I originally espoused.

    In Jehovah God's Universe; time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

    I know that the scriptures warn us all that Satan is the deceiver and seeks to deceive everyone including the most devout Christians, so yes, there is definitely a spiritual warfare going on, not only within the human psyche, but in all the world.

    I appreciate your interest and covet your prayers as I pray for you and as we both seek to come to the knowledge of truth in all matters. I do consider you a brother in Christ Jesus regardless of some of our ideological differences. :cool:

    As for Carlton Pearson's illogical gospel, if he is correct, Jesus is a liar and imposter by his claim in John 14:6 where he emphaticly states: "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but by me." If Pearson is correct the vicarious sacrificial death of Jesus was in vain and the preaching of the Biblical gospel is foolishness. You can't have it both ways. Either you reject the NT or you believe Pearson. I go with the NT.


    BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 56 by Phat, posted 11-27-2006 7:51 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    vangore 
    Suspended Junior Member (Idle past 1777 days)
    Posts: 8
    From: New York,NY,USA
    Joined: 07-11-2012


    Message 58 of 59 (667674)
    07-11-2012 3:27 AM


    Spam Removed

    Edited by AdminPD, : Spam Removal


        
    Genomicus
    Member
    Posts: 846
    Joined: 02-15-2012
    Member Rating: 3.3


    Message 59 of 59 (667686)
    07-11-2012 8:39 AM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Buzsaw
    08-26-2006 10:43 PM


    "YCC"
    The difference is that I only have the creatures as young whereas YEC's generally have the whole universe as young.

    What evidence do you have in support of the notion that all species originated approximately 6000 years ago?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 08-26-2006 10:43 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

      
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