jaywill: wrote:
God had only said that those who were bitten by poisoness serpents would be healed if they looked at it. That is ALL.
An “idol” is a “representation of a supernatural power/being.” In a supernatural fashion “the serpent” cured those who were bitten, thus, “the bronze serpent” was perceived as the “representation of a supernatural power/being.” What did God expect these ignorant, superstitious Hebrews to do?
First of all not all of the Hebrews were ignorant and superstitious. It only takes a few to be so to cause trouble for the nation. So I give many of the Israelites more credit than you do here.
Now I don't know where you got your definition of "idol" from. But I suppose you wish to include under it the following things as idols:
Aaron's rod,
the anointing oil,
the entire wardrobe warn by the priests,
the tabernacle of course,
the bronze altar,
the incense altar,
all the animals offered on the altars,
practically all the untensils associated with the Levitical priests
the ark of Noah,
the horns that the priests blew,
David's sling shot,
the mantle Elijah passed on to Elisha,
the harp David played,
the axe head that Elisha caused to rise to the top of the water,
the manna that the Israelites ate in the wilderness,
the torches and jars used by Gideon's 300 men,
the burning bush that Moses saw,
the Red Sea,
the entire land of Canaan
the arrows that Elisha told Joash to strike,
the fig cake used to heal Hezekiah's boil,
the river Jordon where Naaman the leper was healed
There are many objects both made and from the natural world which had some representation of supernatural power or being. If you think it serves some good purpose to declare that these were all idols, I don't know what you think you have accomplished.
Now let's examine the Scriptures to see if God was wise enough to teach the people the difference.
When I first read the book of First Samuel I was stroke by the incident about the stealing of the ark of the covenant in
First Samuel 4:1 - 7:2.
And when the people came to the camp, the elders of Israel said, Why has Jehovah struck us down before the Philistines? Let us take for ourselves the ark of the Covenant of Jehovah from Shiloh that it may come into our midst, and this save us from the hand of our enemies. (1 Sam. 4:3)
The Ark of the Covenant was constructed according to God's specifications and was holy. I think we can say that it had much represenatation of a supernatural power or being -God. So we apply your definition of idol.
Now when they brought this object to assist them in battle the people cheered and cheered with great confidence. They made such a totally bosterious commotion as any people could ever make.
And when the Ark of the Covenant of Jehovah came into the camp, all Israel shouted with a great shout, and the earth resounded. And the Philistines heard the sound of the shout and said, What does the sound of this great shout in the camp of the Hebrews mean? Then they found out that the Ark of Jehovah had come into their camp. And the Philistines were afraid, for they said, God has come into the camp. And they said Woe to us! Who will deliver us from the hand of these mighty gods? These are the gods that struck the Egyptians with every plague in the wilderness. (vs. 5-8).
Now the first time I read this story I was kind of shocked at the next thing that happens. But there was a great lesson to be learned about it concerning God and so-called spiritual objects.
And the Philistines fought, and they struck Israel; and every man fled to his tent. And there was a very great slaughter, for thirty thousand foot soldiers of Israel fell.
And the Ark of God was taken ... (vs. 10,11)
Regardless of what this object represented in supernatural power or divine being, the Israelites were soundly trounced. In spite of their yelling and shouting with anticipation of victory, their spiritual distance from God caused them to be routed by their enemies as God had warned them.
The object did them no good that day. No supernatural power flowed from it to cause them to defeat the Philistines. They had seen before great military victories before it in the past. Now? Nothing. The nation had backslidden away from the reality of Jehovah thier God.
This sore lesson surely impressed many that however representative of God the physical object was, it was the hearts of the people towards God that mattered most. The start contrast between superstitious devotion to an object, albeit created at the instruction of God Himself, could never replace real worship from the heart towards the unseen God.
This was not the only lesson of this kind God gave. But it underlined that God was not so unwise as to help the people to discern between superstition based on consecrated physical objects and the heart's devotion and obedience to God Himself.
You continue with:
Apparently God expected them to do precisely what they eventually did, as described in Deut. 31:16 - 21.
God's foreknowledge of what was going to happen is only that. His expecting them to become idolatrous does not represent His perfect will that they do so. I don't see what
Deut. 31:16-21 has to do with it. It probably served as a warning such that all of the Hebrews did not participate in the idolatry. That some did as expected was trouble enough.
The bronze serpent was made in obedience. The making of it into a god that they worshipped was done in disobedience. So I think it was Hezekiah who brought it out and destroyed it. It had become an idol.
No kidding! Of course it became an idol.
So what is your point? Is it your desire to charge God with telling the people to have no idols and also commanding the people to have idols? Is that some kind of "ace of spades" of a skeptical argument you want to play?
The whole universe can be said to represent the supernatural power and being of God in a real sense.
I think you're trying too hard to hunt out reasons to teach everybody that God is hypocritical and needn't be taken seriously.
I sense that you are attempting to split some very
fine hairs.
I sense that your case is not nearly as strong as you think it is. Where do we see God informing the people that the bronze serpent on a pole is a god?
"Then Jehovah said to Moses, Make a fiery serpent, and set ot on a pole; and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live." (Num. 21:6)
What you want to do is to charge God with commanding the people not to make gods to worship in one place and in another commanding the people to make a god out of a bronze serpent.
The burden is on you to prove that there is a direct contradiction between
Numbers 21:8 and Exodus 20:3-5. You have attempted to do this by putting forward a definition of an idol from somewhere which you assume will encompase at least all things made that have some representation of God's power or of Himself.
If you want to prove a contradiction point out:
1.) Where did God command them to bow down to the object?
2.) Where did God command them to worship it?
3.) Where did God inform them that it was a god?
4.) Where did God to even "serve" the object?
I grant you that it was an object with the likeness of something in the earth -
"You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor the form of anything that is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water beneath the earth." But you ignore the explanation of idol given in the command by God Himself -
"You shall not bow down to them, and you shall not serve them ..."
I think that the Hebrews understood what Jehovah meant. I think you sre working at misunderstanding what He meant. The tabernacle that God told Moses to make was in the likeness, somewhat at least, of OTHER tent structures which were quite commonly seen by the people. There is no argument that the tabernacle also had much spiritual representation of God's supernatural power and Being. Would you argue that its making was also a violation of
Exodus 20:4?
If that is your argument then I sense that you're not trying to understand the Bible. Rather you're trying hard to misunderstand it. What do you hope that will gain for you?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
™ Version 4.2