Morality! Thorn in Darwin's side or not?

You mean you'd like proof of a moral by seeing one?
Can you see morals? No, so they don't exist right?
Can you see your brain? No, but it's there...Why would you expect science - the minds of men - to find and understand their maker? It is like a clock knowing the clock maker - he does not exist - as far as the clock can prove anyway.If morals don't exist how come they are the only thing that can properly guard the physical and spiritual values of a society?
Ten simple laws with tremendous results.The trouble is that people are so desensitized to morality that they have dispensed with it altogether and made up their own standards.
A thief justifies his actions by saying he only steals from the wealthy.
A murderer justifies his actions by saying it had to be done to improve his world.
An adulterer or fornicator, justifies his actions by the pleasure he gets.But evolution is all accommodating to vice, non judgmental and accepting to all, that's the kind of god we want isn't it?So could evolution be the thing we developed to help us overcome the hindrances of moral law and allow full indulgence of whatever feels good, without any consideration of anyone else except self?Narcissism, sociopathy...

So good and bad is defined by what the majority in any situation believe to be.So if you are in a country where they are about to burn alive a former wife because they want a new model, then that's good, because the majority consent to it, and have made it their rule or morality?And somehow evolution is not a belief as such, but stands alone from all the different belief systems as a standard of what? truth?.

Physical and social issues as I have pointed out in earlier posts, are things we may or may not want to address, and name morals, which in the process of evolution are only issues relative for the time, and can not be intrinsically right or wrong - they can only be "whatever is." Nothing more or less.
Ultimately, whatever overcomes us is the winning species, be it bacteria or a machine, and regardless of whether we think it right or not, it is ordained by the destiny of chance and survival of the fittest.Now go and do whatever you have to, but at the end of the day you are nothing better than an expanded worm.

There is no such thing as accountability in evolution, accountable to what or who?If you are part of evolution you have no accountability, and no one has the right to hold you to any accountability even though it can be enforced by the majority.
You have the opportunity to develop a means by which you can exterminate all your oppositions, and rise above them in excellence.
But even then, that does not make you righteous, because if it turns the other way, it is the way of physics and natural consequence, which has no morals or intent, or accountability.What is more, you cannot demand, at any time or circumstance, the accountability of others towards you. They have their own role in the process of evolution based on chance and circumstances.Accountability implies purpose, and evolution has none.If it does then you have created a god with mind and personality to which you bow.

Nothing is sad about evolution, sad too bad, may the better survive and flourish.Who is this evolution entity? you ask,
I did not even suggest it was one, but go ahead, tell me about the one you adore.

So we do have morals, of course we do, our morals defined by us and not anything outside of us.The intelligent species has developed a means of enforcing its ideals onto others by rules, and the one with the most power makes the rules, right?Then we have different ideals, politics, religions, the powers that put their stamp on society...And what does all this idealism lead to? A dream of some kind of global utopia?A new global kingdom?Most certainly as predicted - the last empire. But then what would God know about the future, especially since he does not exist, and the Bible is rubbish and contradictory because religions have proven its unreliability, even though it exposes them, as well as every global move in politics.

Who's the fool for talking with me then?Edited by Colbard, : No reason given.

'works' for who? everyone or those in power?It is impossible to discuss morality/right and wrong/good and evil in this world without exposing a battle that is taking place on a grand scale through religion and politics and on an individual level or with the conscience.
To blame religion for this conflict and the lack of objective morality is true in every sense but only part of the picture, since it involves more than humanity.

And we'll be saying "it seemed like a good idea at the time"Pity for all those of the past, pity for all those in progress, what a mess.

We may say we are accountable for our actions if we want to, but we are not under any obligation to be accountable, and neither does anyone have the right to make us accountable to whatever, but in evolution they can do this if they want to, simply because they can, and for no external moral reasons.
It does not make their actions right or wrong, just what they are, because it can be done.
So genocide is just a thing that happens by people who can.We may not like that, but that's life under competition the necessary element in evolution.

May I complement you for your clear writing and reasoning.You are saying that accountability is part of evolution because it has become a part of our society.
We could go on a long journey to find out how it entered the world and which morals work the best etc.What I am saying is that, as far as evolution is concerned, the current situation of accountability and its evolving,
may be temporal and overthrown by another ideology which we do not like or agree with. We may think it is wrong and be hurt by it, but its survival may be necessary for the protection of a tougher species in the future.Evolution is something which happens without goals towards goodness or an ideal, it may even bring all things to a permanent destruction, which according to science, we are eventually headed towards a collapsing universe.Such catastrophic endings are tempered by their long term predictions, far beyond our life time, and the fantasy that we will develop and help ourselves to survive any disasters of the future.Then there is another fantasy that death and disease will be overcome...But while many sleep and dream, their lives are drawing to a close, and the battle between good and evil is coming to a sudden unexpected climax on this earth, and we need to be informed how it takes place and make a wise decision about it.To think that morality is solely human generated, without any greater context of God, may be a tragic mistake, because if it goes wrong for us, and the world is betrayed into a false sense of security, by a lying system...who will help us?History shows that human beings are conned by ideologies, betrayed and their society ruined.

Well, Tangle it is wonderful that you can bathe in the niceties of Protestant Christian principles of rule, and at the same time dismiss the martyrs of the reformation who shed their blood for freedom from the tyranny of the Papacy.
You might also like to consider how lucky you are to be in a country which is half Christian, and not under some strange middle eastern persuasion.You are pleasantly oblivious to the battle that's been going on in this world to keep its inhabitants out of oppression. Unaware of history.
But go on and enjoy the freedom...You don't like genocide? That's just too bad if another ideology is more powerful than yours, just too bad. Your god of evolution may help who knows.

You've just wowed me. I am stuck for words. I would like to know more about the last sentence - how those morals came in through evolution. The question speaks for itself, but I was just wondering, when, at which stage of evolution did it became evident?Edited by Colbard, : No reason given.

The first instance is a vote by the majority, in this case of misogynists. Unfair.
The second example comes from the Jewish theocracy, which did not work on majority votes but on a direct individual relation to God.
Breaking the Sabbath was a deliberate denial of that direct relationship. It was sticking the middle finger up at the King of Israel as well as the universe.
After the Jewish nation apostatized, they lost their direct Kingship of God and had judicial ideas similar to the other nations. With corruption in the leadership, stoning was often a heinous crime, and not a fitting punishment at all.If there is any moral law, either from evolution or revelation, it has to be very fair, as you said in consideration of the condemned as well. It has to strive for perfection in balancing justice and mercy.What we all find appalling is when those in authority are not doing it fairly or honestly. Our world is a history of battles between the upright and the lowlifes, in judicial systems. And I believe that is so because of damage to the human psych.
In the case of evolution an underdevelopment.

If it did not take you so long to figure that out, I would have believed you, but I am glad you thought long and hard to come up with that conclusion.