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Author Topic:   Is death a product of evolution
Hawks
Member (Idle past 6176 days)
Posts: 41
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 18 of 46 (363664)
11-13-2006 8:36 PM


Nature ran a review article on the subject in 2000, available for free online. It does not talk specifically about death but more about theories of ageing. Among other things, the article talks about the disposable soma theory, "which is based on optimal allocation of metabolic resources between somatic maintenance and reproduction". I.e. An organism allocates resources to either (1) stay young or (2) reproduce (and what's in between, obviously). At least for C. elegans, longevity is in part controlled through a single metabolic pathway under the control of the DAF-2/DAF-16 transcriptional regulators (link). The article also mentions that for D. melanogaster, longevity is correlated with less fecundity.
Well worth a read.

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Hawks
Member (Idle past 6176 days)
Posts: 41
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 30 of 46 (366915)
11-29-2006 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by 2ice_baked_taters
11-28-2006 10:45 PM


Re: growing versus spreading
quote:
Does DNA/RNA have a "lifespan"?
Anything has a lifespan. Unless there is some input of energy to maintain an equilibrium (e.g. maintain the integrity of DNA) things will tend towards disorder (according to the second law of theromdynamics). I guess you could say that death will result when there is not enough input of energy to maintain the integrity of the metabolic functions in an organism. This could happen when, for instance, not enough food is available or when energy is used to produce offspring instead (See my message #18 for link to an article that talks about the disposable some theory).
(The following piece will only deal with multucellular organisms)
You asked earlier in message #23 "How does "survival of the fittest" require death?". It doesn't. You can always think of it this way: While "the purpose of a multicellular organism might seem to be to make more multicellular organisms", instead think of it as "the role of gametes (i.e. egg and sperm) is to make more gametes through the vehicle of a multicellular organism". In this sense, multicellular organisms are just as immortal as prokaryotes are (although even they seem to age to an extent).

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 Message 29 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 11-28-2006 10:45 PM 2ice_baked_taters has replied

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Hawks
Member (Idle past 6176 days)
Posts: 41
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 35 of 46 (367697)
12-04-2006 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by 2ice_baked_taters
11-29-2006 10:05 PM


Re: growing versus spreading
quote:
DNA/RNA simply replicate themselves correct? How is death a factor here?
Technically speaking, they don't replicate themselves. They code for instructions for how to do it (saying that, some RNAs do have catalytic ability and some are involved in DNA replication - but by themselves they can't do it). This is all very philosophical, but "death" for DNA would be when it is degraded to nucleic acids, I suppose. In any case, I would not say that DNA "dies" with the organism considering that other organisms might still engulf it and potentially incorporate it. On the other hand, it is not really the actual molecules as such that make DNA important, but rather the information they carry. In this sense, DNA would "die" when it no longer carries any meaningful information. This is all just random thoughts, of course...
quote:
Multi cellular organisms seek to maintian their reaction. This is not a factor in the case of DNA/RNA.
It is not the case for proteins or fats either. In fact, you can't point to any singular molecule in an organism and say that is seeks to maintain anything.
quote:
At some point the individual organism began to exist for itself beyond replication. What was the advantage of this and was this when death as we understand it became a factor?
I'm again just being philosophical without presenting any actual data - but that kind of suits the questions anyway, methinks...
I would probably say that death, as I understand you to refer to it (i.e. ageing), would have started whenever organisms became multicellular AND had cells with specialized functions. The question then becomes: why aren't non-reproductive cells immortal so as to allow indefinite reproduction? Well, for starters, there has to be a balance between maintaining the non-reproductive cells versus reproducing. Combine that with the fact that there is a cumulative probability of death (from disasters, predation) one can see why it would be good to have a larger population rather than investing too many resources on growing old when you might die anyway. One can also speculate that perhaps faster reproducing organisms were better at adapting to changing environments, so that longevity is in fact restricted because of competition with members of the same species. So, the answer here as to why we die of age would be that selective forces have come to a balance between the benefits of ageing and reproduction.
To find out the advantage of such a system I suppose one should start looking at organisms that are multicellular but don't have specialised cells (e.g. sponges). Is there, for these organisms, an advantage to live as colonies? Next you can start looking at organism that have just a few specialised cells types and see what kind of advantage this has over organisms such as sponges. I'll leave that as an excercise to those that have the time to look it up (I seem to remember reading about this at some stage, so I THINK that some material might be available).

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