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Author Topic:   millions of years?
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 1 of 78 (43814)
06-23-2003 8:19 PM


why millions of years,evolution supposes millions of years.
what about extinction,i think a lot of animals have been extinct in my lifetime.Anyone remember the black death? surely over millions of years when there were far less humans time would become the enemy,we would not have the time to evolve ?
no evolutionist has explained this to me , nothing satisfactory anyway,maybe someone like Schrafinator could answer this one for me.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2003 8:31 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 19 by zephyr, posted 06-24-2003 11:38 AM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 22 by Peter, posted 06-25-2003 5:55 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 2 of 78 (43817)
06-23-2003 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
06-23-2003 8:19 PM


What are you needing explained? Your post isn't very clear....
And every geological and paleontological shred of evidence there is points directly to many millions of years of history, so evolution isn't supposing anything - the time is there for it all to happen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 8:19 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 8:38 PM Coragyps has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 3 of 78 (43819)
06-23-2003 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Coragyps
06-23-2003 8:31 PM


but i dont think we would survive millions of years , that is my problem , and still i have no answer , dont fudge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2003 8:31 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 8:51 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 5 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2003 8:54 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 4 of 78 (43821)
06-23-2003 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz
06-23-2003 8:38 PM


but i dont think we would survive millions of years , that is my problem , and still i have no answer , dont fudge.
We very nearly didn't survive, about 80,000 years ago the total number of humans was some 10,000 or so. (We infer this from genetic data.) That's about as close to extinction as you could get and have a reasonable chance of bouncing back.
Most species haven't survived. The fossil record is largely one of extinction. We, like the rest of the animals today, are the decendants of those lucky enough to have the right adaptation at the right time.
What's your point, exactly? That it's too unreasonable for us to have been lucky? Do you say the same thing when somebody wins the lottery? "The odds of them winning are so low they must have cheated."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 8:38 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 8:58 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 5 of 78 (43823)
06-23-2003 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz
06-23-2003 8:38 PM


I'm still not sure what your question is, but in any case, humans that look about like us have been dated back only as far as 160,000 years. The hominids of two million years ago weren't that much like us - they were short, with small brains and protruding faces, and we would probably say that they looked like chimps if we could see them. So we haven't survived for millions of years - other great apes somewhat similar to us survived for a time, and led to populations that died out, and other populations that didn't die out. And some of these latter finally gave rise to Homo sapiens sapiens. But none of those groups stayed totally unchanged over time and space, and neither have we.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 8:38 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 9:08 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 6 of 78 (43825)
06-23-2003 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by crashfrog
06-23-2003 8:51 PM


'What's your point, exactly? That it's too unreasonable for us to have been lucky'
no i just think its far more likely we have been around for thousands of years and been given the requirements to survive.
i think we came equipped in other words.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 8:51 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 9:10 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 51 by Parasomnium, posted 07-30-2003 6:36 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 7 of 78 (43826)
06-23-2003 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Coragyps
06-23-2003 8:54 PM


how many hominids have been found?
and cant these just be different types of monkey?
be patient with me lol.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2003 8:54 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 9:14 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 8 of 78 (43827)
06-23-2003 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by mike the wiz
06-23-2003 8:58 PM


i just think its far more likely we have been around for thousands of years and been given the requirements to survive.
Well, as Coragyps said, we only have been around for thousands of years - some 160,000 years, dating from our most distant ancestor for who we have fossil evidence, for instance.
Or did you only mean 6,000 years? If so, how do you explain the vast weight of fossil and radiometric data to the contrary?
See, the thing is, I agree with you, largely - we were equipped with what we needed to survive. But the fossil record is littered with hominids that didn't have what it took. We were the lucky ones.
When people win the lottery, did they "have what it took?" Or weren't they just lucky? Does luck even exist in your worldview? If it doesn't - if everything that happens has to have purpose - there's no way we're going to explain this to your satisfaction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 8:58 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 9:17 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 9 of 78 (43828)
06-23-2003 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by mike the wiz
06-23-2003 9:08 PM


and cant these just be different types of monkey?
Monkeys have tails. Hominids don't. So no, they're not monkeys.
Of course, you may have meant apes. In that case, yes, these are different "types" of apes - just as humans are a different type of ape.
Perhaps you'd like to familiarize yourself with the levels of biological classification before you speculate as to what order, genus, or species a particular specimen belongs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 9:08 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 10 of 78 (43831)
06-23-2003 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by crashfrog
06-23-2003 9:10 PM


'Or did you only mean 6,000 years? If so, how do you explain the vast weight of fossil and radiometric data to the contrary?'
i did mean 6000 years , i dont think we did get lucky i think we are here for a purpose .
'See, the thing is, I agree with you, largely - we were equipped with what we needed to survive.'
isn't it then more logical that we were made with all the stuff we needed rather than evolving the stuff over huge periods?
do you completely disregard that we could have been created with the stuff to survive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 9:10 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 9:27 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 11 of 78 (43834)
06-23-2003 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by mike the wiz
06-23-2003 9:17 PM


isn't it then more logical that we were made with all the stuff we needed rather than evolving the stuff over huge periods?
Given that there's a significant body of evidence for the utility of evolutionary processes in giving rise to adaptations, and given that there's zero evidence for a creator god, I'd have to say no, it's not more logical.
do you completely disregard that we could have been created with the stuff to survive.
We're born with it, is that what you mean? We are, of course. Well, not everybody is, and they usually die before leaving children. Sometimes the environment changes rapidly and nobody has what it takes anymore, and everybody in the population dies. That's called "extinction." It happens all the time, geologically speaking.
Or do you mean, the human species was designed with everything it needed to survive by some creator? Seems a little unreasonable to me - why didn't this "god" do a better job, for one thing? And where is he now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 9:17 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 9:33 PM crashfrog has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 12 of 78 (43836)
06-23-2003 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by crashfrog
06-23-2003 9:27 PM


'Or do you mean, the human species was designed with everything it needed to survive by some creator? Seems a little unreasonable to me - why didn't this "god" do a better job, for one thing? And where is he now?'
degeneration, it was the humans that cocked it up.
and when you ask where is God , how do you mean,what would satisfy you,if he appeared to you would that satisfy you,your a brilliant and unique design my friend i just wish God would prove himself to you somehow,but as Jesus said even if one rose from the dead they would not believe if they do not believe the words of God - not qouted but similar to this effect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 9:27 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 9:37 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 13 of 78 (43838)
06-23-2003 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by mike the wiz
06-23-2003 9:33 PM


degeneration, it was the humans that cocked it up.
Oh? It's humans that are reponsible for the blood loss of female menstruation? Humans that are responsible for a backbone as stable and as suited to upright travel as a stack of quarters? Humans that are responsible for crania perched precariously on thin, breakable necks? Humans that are responsible for airways and esophaga that join in the mouth, allowing food/drink to enter the lungs?
I'm not talking about degenerative diseases when I say "a better job", I'm talking about fundamental design flaws in the human body.
These Edenite perfect people couldn't have looked anything like modern humans. How would the bible writers have even recognized them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 9:33 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 9:42 PM crashfrog has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 14 of 78 (43839)
06-23-2003 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by crashfrog
06-23-2003 9:37 PM


i was just saying that degeneration is responsable for any poor conditions,i think life overall works well, i am not ignorant i know there are diseases and such,however the design of the human body to me is brilliant and is the work of the most brilliant mind ever !
you seem a little pissed at the creator, how about my question anyway,what would be proof of God to you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 9:37 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 10:11 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 15 of 78 (43849)
06-23-2003 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by mike the wiz
06-23-2003 9:42 PM


however the design of the human body to me is brilliant and is the work of the most brilliant mind ever
Eh, I could do better. It's a product of "unintellident design".
you seem a little pissed at the creator, how about my question anyway,what would be proof of God to you?
How could I be angry at that which does not exist?
Proof of god would be evidence of god's actions that couldn't be explained away as wishful thinking, random chance, or simply lying on the part of so-called prophets.
A message encoded in DNA would be proof of a creator.
As for Jesus's saying, I've never seen anyone rise from the dead. So his criticism is a little harsh. I've never, ever seen anything miraculous. Why should I believe? Because somebody wrote a book that says so? I can write a book that says anything I like.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 9:42 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by mike the wiz, posted 06-23-2003 10:18 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 52 by Barryven, posted 07-30-2003 11:07 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
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