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Author Topic:   What convinced you of Evolution?
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 157 (70575)
12-02-2003 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DaVx0r
12-01-2003 8:17 PM


a matter of logic
I think I've already related my story on this board somewhere, but I don't mind retelling it.
I used to be a creationist. The first doubts about creationism occurred when I took biology as a high school sophomore. I learned about the Linnean classification, and I had to admit that it was a pretty strange thing to see in a world individually created "kinds". I tried to start a thread on this very topic; feel free to add to it. I'm disappointed it didn't really go anywhere.
But what finally destroyed my belief in creationism was the Malthusian argument and modern genetics. Incidentally, I was a junior in high school taking the AP biology course. It is an incredibly strong argument. Most individuals produce far more offspring than is necessary to replace themselves. Since most populations are stable, this means a lot of individuals die before they can reproduce. Within any species there is a lot of variation between individuals. It is simply logical that those that survive to reproduce will be more likely those whose characterists enable them to better survive in their environment than those who do not. Plus, genetics gives us a theory of inheretence, as well as a source of new variability (mutations), and so it is simply obvious that evolution must be occurring even now. I could not, and cannot now, see any way to prevent it. After realizing this, I took a new look at the evidence for past evolution and... well, I simply was no longer able to deny the very strong evidence for evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DaVx0r, posted 12-01-2003 8:17 PM DaVx0r has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 157 (70631)
12-02-2003 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Thronacx
12-02-2003 1:03 PM


Another thing wrong with this analogy. No one actually ever saw the teacher fill the bucket. All we have is a paper that claimed that the teacher filled the bucket with water. And we know that that piece of paper was actually written well after the bucket was filled. And the description seems pretty close to the stories told in the next class room that the entire custodial staff is responsible for the filling of the bucket....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Thronacx, posted 12-02-2003 1:03 PM Thronacx has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 157 (70890)
12-03-2003 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DaVx0r
12-01-2003 8:17 PM


Actually, this post is in reply to another post in another thread, but I thought this would be a more appropriate place for a response.
I would like to point out a quote from the originating post of this thread:
So, what convinced you of evolution over any other religion? Were you just brought up with the theory of evolution? Does it just make sense to you? Were you forced into it because you refused to believe in a deity? Or are you just one of those, "Scientists thought of it...It must be true" kind of people?
Perhaps I am wrong, but the tone of these quotes seems to be that the only people who accept the theory of evolution are those who either were brainwashed as they were growing up, or who simply refuse to believe in the Bible. There were several responses in this thread from people who were initially creationists but who accepted evolution as they learned more. I can even add more detail to my story: I was a fundamentalist Baptist. I wanted to believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. I fought against accepting evolution, I prayed to God to help me maintain my faith. In the end I had to admit that by the evidence and by logic the creation account in Genesis could not be the literal truth.
So, DaVxOr, are you going to admit that someone who looks at the evidence in a logical, reasoned, objective manner can accept the theory of evolution? Or are you convinced that people believe in evolution are simply dupes?

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 Message 1 by DaVx0r, posted 12-01-2003 8:17 PM DaVx0r has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 157 (71039)
12-04-2003 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Thronacx
12-04-2003 4:43 PM


Re: Dis and Data
So, you agree with Rrhain's point? Do you believe that no one should ever be convicted of any crime unless there was an eye witness to the act?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Thronacx, posted 12-04-2003 4:43 PM Thronacx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Abshalom, posted 12-05-2003 12:10 PM Chiroptera has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 157 (71211)
12-05-2003 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Abshalom
12-05-2003 12:10 PM


Re: Good Eyesight
Hello, Abshalom.
My question was directed at Thronacx. He/she is trying to discredit evolution by the old "it's all a matter of how you interpret the data" argument. A silly argument, since when taken to its extreme one can never know anything, one can never be certain about anything. Criminal trials, for example, are based on the idea that one can be very reasonably certain about unseen events based on factual evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Abshalom, posted 12-05-2003 12:10 PM Abshalom has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Thronacx, posted 12-05-2003 1:11 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 152 of 157 (72080)
12-10-2003 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Zhimbo
12-10-2003 11:09 AM


Re: what convinced me of evolution?
I think that DaVxOr is diappointed in the responses. If you read the initial post it is clear that DaVxOr wants to believe that people will only believe in evolution because either they have been brain washed as children to accept it or that they simply don't want to believe in God. But many people have responded indicating that they never had much discussion about it one way or another as children, and it was the evidence alone that convinced them. I, myself, was in the opposite situation: I tried very hard to not accept evolution, I tried very hard to deny it, but in the end I just couldn't. I think that DaVxOr is having a hard time believing that the evidence for evolution is so good that it alone can be persuasive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Zhimbo, posted 12-10-2003 11:09 AM Zhimbo has not replied

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