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Author Topic:   Marsupial evolution
Wounded King
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Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 68 of 91 (473126)
06-27-2008 5:54 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by randman
06-27-2008 2:05 AM


Re: more evidence of avoiding the actual evidence
Niches are not simply the result of the inorganic environment but the bio-environment, which is why things like invasive species can have such an impact. Selection pressures are not simply produced via the inorganic environment. Take away a predator, for example, and keep the land the same, and you will see changes in the animals there due to their bio-environment changing. Introduce a disease as a result of it's virus or bacteria mutating and becoming more lethal and keep the land the same, and you likewise see changes.
This is perfectly true but it is a stretch to then posit that random mutation means effectively random niches. Niches need not be exactly identical to produce similar pressures which may lead to convergent evolution.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by randman, posted 06-27-2008 2:05 AM randman has replied

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 Message 69 by randman, posted 06-27-2008 1:03 PM Wounded King has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 70 of 91 (473195)
06-27-2008 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by randman
06-27-2008 1:03 PM


Empirical studies of convergence
I didn't say perfectly random niches.
Well neither did I. If you aren't saying that random mutations are introducing a significant enough random factor to radically alter the environment in a random manner then what was your argument?
But there is no reason for near exact duplication of forms in placental and marsupial pairs.
So far you don't seem to have made a compelling case for the 'near exact' level of duplication.
Furthermore, they don't even have the same environment.
I agree, to the extent that they don't have identical environments, but in some cases function dictates form to some extent, i.e. the shovel shaped paws of marsupial and mammalian moles.
Once again, this is just another untested hypothesis which evos accept as true as if it needs no verification at all.
Do you just assume this? There are lab based studies on convergence in viruses (as you yourself referenced in another thread), bacteriophages (Bull et al., 1997), and Drosophila (Matos et al., 2002). The Bull et al. paper is actually probably better than your SIV paper for showing genetic convergence since it details their subsequent failure to reconstruct what they know to be the true phylogeny from the complete genome sequences of the virus.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by randman, posted 06-27-2008 1:03 PM randman has replied

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 Message 71 by randman, posted 06-27-2008 6:06 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
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