Christianity and wealth

A few other threads and comments from Phatboy and others have got me thinking?What can we say about wealth and material possessions and the relationship between those things and the teachings of the bible?

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No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Mat 6:24

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Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

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Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

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Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

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Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

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Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

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Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

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Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

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Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

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I don't want this to be another thread about Pat Robertson but he provides a good example for us to work with:

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Robertson's net worth is between $200 million and $1 billion USD according to the 2002 book The Best Democracy Money Can Buy by Greg Palast. Robertson has made a number of shrewd business deals.

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Pat Robertson - WikipediaWhat does a man need with $200 million dollars (note: this is estimated to be his own wealth not that of his minstry)?How many cars or suits does such a man need? How many hours would the pursuit of such wealth divert from preaching of the word of the lord?Can Man walk with two masters? How does the pursuit of wealth intergrate with being a christian? Is there no conflict at all?

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

note: I didn't read the part where you were making another thread on this topic, this is what i wrote form the other topic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Let me try to explain the mindset of conservative preachers (that I know anyway).
I've quoted all the verses.
I've shown how Jesus owned nothing.This is what I've been told by them. "People work hard to get that money, people with money can do many things people without can"First of all, the first sentence isn't necessarily true. People are born with it too. Sure that is true, people with money can buy houses for good organizations and donate large amounts to charity (remember the old lady with the penny?) but the majority don't do that. They just want more.This is where I really have to disagree."We should havea flat tax. The rich, the middle, and the poor have to pay the same amount. Like in Jesus' times"If a this man has a dollar, this man has a quarter and this man has a penny. You take nothing from the man with a penny. A nickel from the man with a quarter. And a quarter from the man with the dollar.To them, (the conservative christians I know)That is stealing.So maybe that is a bit of an insight into how they may feel.I've heard christian rappers misquote verses straight from the Bible in support of money. Misquote as I mean in context it's wrong.I personally feel it's hypocritical and wrong for a christian to have an excessive amount of wealth.This message has been edited by Chris Porteus, 09-02-2005 11:53 AM

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Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

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Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

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Mar 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

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Luk 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

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Luk 12:21 So [is] he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

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אָרַח

Jesus supported a very large entourage largely through offerings and support from wealthy supporters such as Joanna, the wife of Herod's steward. Joseph o Arimethea was also wealthy and the some of the 12 apostles if not all seemed to have some wealth.After Jesus told them about how hard it was for a rich man to be saved, their reaction is quite telling. None of them said, well, we're in the clear there, Lord!No, they were astonished and exclaimed, well, who then can be saved?Doesn't sound like poor men talking to me.Peter and Andrew had a family business and still seemed to retain ownership of the boats after Jesus was crucified.Jesus had a house in Caperneum at one point until the masses forced him to seek more private dwellings.But Jesus was very clear. You cannot put money ahead of God, and in some cases, it's a good idea for men to leave all of their possessions so they can follow the Lord and free their heart of their allegiance to their possessions.But Jesus did not tell everyone to do that. He had friends and followers who did not, in fact, ever sell all that they had, and who did support him and his entourage of disciples, which was quite large at times.There was a reason the ministry had a treasurer, who was a thief in fact. There was some money flowing through the ministry, and there was and is absolutely nothing wrong with that. God is not against people prospering.But He is against people making wealth what they serve.Edit to add that one of the women followers poured the rich anointment on Jesus' feet, Judas criticized it saying it could have been given to the poor. Evidently, they had enough money to pay for at a minimum 13 men's needs at all times, but sometimes closer to a 100 (the 70 and the 12 and assuming some were not picked), and still offer relief to the poor. They endured hardship due to persecution and willingly following Jesus keeping them away from their homes and possessions, but they were not without means.This message has been edited by randman, 09-02-2005 12:57 PM

The issue of wealth and money runs throughout the Bible. It's an important consideration and often misunderstood.The key, IMHO, is not the actual state of wealth, but how it's used and why it's garnered.One constant theme is that salvation does not come through works. This is more complex than it might seem at first. I believe what it means is that if you do works to gain salvation, then you miss the point. You should be doing works because that's the right thing to do.Wealth is the same. If you gather wealth for the creature comforts it allows, or to gain respect from your peers, or for status, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.If, on the otherhand, you gather wealth which is then used for helping others, not because it will make you famous or popular, but because it's the right thing to do, wealth is not a handicap.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Jesus had a house in Caperneum at one point until the masses forced him to seek more private dwellings.

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How do you come to know this? I only ask because before you mentioned how Christ fed 5000 and you said they must have had money for it. When in reality Christ performed a miracle to have all of that food.I see you've realized this but I'm not sure where you get the "Christ had a house" from

Chris, you don't read too well. I said that at times, such as the feeding of the 5000, it took a miracle, but pointed that out as the exception.Are you suggesting that Jesus always miraculously multiplied the food they needed or something like that?

Good post.Maybe the only time jar and I have agreed on something.

No, but I'm saying they didn't eat alot. They went from twon to town found people that were able to give them food and went on preaching.You still didn't answer my question,What makes you think Christ had a house?

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If, on the otherhand, you gather wealth which is then used for helping others, not because it will make you famous or popular, but because it's the right thing to do, wealth is not a handicap.

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Please give me an example of this.

One possible example is Danny Thomas. Another would be Roy and Dale. There are many folk that use their resources for good, the best will likely never be known because they do not do it for the notoriety.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

hmm, I guess I can see this. I for one would never have the motivation to become very rich or the desire. I sort of see that as anti-Christ but then again now money could be used to buy planes and supplies and foodstuffs so it's alright I guess. If you use it for good.I'll check those guys out

Hey jar,Did Christ have a house?LOL

Unimportant. It's little things like this that draw discussions off into strange waters.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion