two important questions for Servant

Mike, I'm reminded of a book I once read about insane people's mental perception of the sane. I can't remember what the book is called for the life of me, but basically it says that some insane people think sane people are actually the ones that are out of their mind, because sane people can't see what insane people see even though, to insane people, these things are obviously there.Isn't it possible that you are the one that never got out of your box and you think that the rest of us are trapped inside a box even though we are the ones that are outside the box?

I feel a little childish for saying this, but you started it.I do not think you are insane. I just think you are mislead, but that is my personal opinion. I only used the insane thing as an analogy.

I would accept this explanation as a valid argument if the Judeo-Christian God is the only one out there. However, we do not have such a case in reality. We have the Greek creation myth that placed Gaea as the first being in the universe, who begot Uranus and the rest of the Titans. We have the Egyptian creation myth who placed Re Atum as the first God who created the other 3 first Gods and they all created the world as we know it. Besides that, we have the Chinese, Indian, Sumerian, Babylonian, Mayan, etc... who all had a different version of the creation myth.So, how the freaking hell are we supposed to know which one is the right one?I could go outside, look at the trees, and say, "thank Zeus for that wonderful trees!" Tell me why your God is more genuine than the other gods out there. Tell me why I should toss out everything I've learned about the natural world and start believing in your mythological figure.[This message has been edited by Lam, 04-17-2004]

I, too, have been asking for some kind of real evidence to support the creationist view. All I've gotten are quotes from the bible and the ever famous "you need to believe to see Him."My question is how do you know it is not hallucination when you see something but nobody else could? I can't start saying that because I see a dead girl in my room (but noone else can) then that proves that ghosts exist. I have to have something more solid than that.

This is something that I occasionally use to present an alternate explanation for all the so-called miracles that were mentioned in the bible. How do we know that they were not the work of some magicians, or illusionists? In fact, how do we know that they were not done by extraterrestrials? The movie Stargate offers just as a valid theory about religion as the bible.

I was speed reading through this earlier today and probably forgot to address this. Thank you Froggie for reminding me.Of all my time arguing with creationists both on the internet and out in the real world, this has got to be the most interesting viewpoint I have ever encountered.My question to you is why are you even looking at your computer moniter now? Why are you wearing the clothes that you are wearing, knowing that human intellect and technological devolopment made it possible for you to wear that shirt? Wait, why are you eating the food that you are eating? It is most likely a result of genetic engineering. Have you ever flown on a plane before? I am guessing that you have a car, am I right?The thought just flashed through my mind that we should have a law that throws people like you on a deserted island and let you live without any technology whatsoever, since you want the rest of us to be as (please forgive my bluntness) as you.[This message has been edited by Lam, 04-18-2004]

You should read Origin of Species by Darwin.Darwin started out with his experiments to test out Lamark's theory, which states that adaptive traits are passed down from one generation to the next. In other words, Lamark believed that if you learn how to play the clarinet really well, then you will pass your skills down to your children as a clarinet player. Lamark justified this by pointing to the fact that children of musicians are usually great musicians and children of lock smiths are usually great lock smiths.What Darwin found out was that adaptive traits cannot be passed on to the next generation, but phenotypic traits can. He came to this conclusion after his observations of the peas in his garden.Most of what influenced Darwin to come up with his theory of evolution through natural selection came from his observations while on the Beagle, a ship that left Britain in 1831 to map out South America. On the voyage, Darwin observed many species on isolated islands that look strikingly similar to the ones on the mainland. In other words, years of observations and cataloguing thousands of species got him to come up with the theory. It wasn't some kind of divine revelation that got him to come up with his theory.Even though Darwin lived in the 19th century, I think that he had one of the best scientific minds anyone in history could have, considering that most people back then were still shaky in the field of science.

Oops! Hahahaha. My mistake. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that.

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The Laminator

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I don't think you are open minded at all. If you are, you would have figured out by now that your idea doesn't hold. You want to talk about organic matter coming from inorganic?Have you ever heard of the Stanley Miller's experiment in 1933? He put in all the inorganic components of what early Earth was thought to have into an apparatus. He also had water in there. When I said inorganic components, I mean hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon, etc.... Miller then zapped the whole thing with electricity for a few days. Voila! He found amino acids, ATP, sugar, some monomers of protein, and even nucleotides of the monomers of DNA and RNA in the apparatus that weren't there before.Later repeats of the experiment by other scientists have produced all 20 amino acids necessary for life.But wait! You've never heard of this information before, because you've never bothered to look up information that could refute your idea. How is this open minded???

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The Laminator

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For one thing, I wasn't using the Miller's experiment to prove that life could come from nothing, and nobody is saying that anyway. You were saying that it was impossible for order to come from chaos, and Miller simply showed that order CAN come from disorder.Again, let me remind you that your idea is that order can't come from disorder. We have shown you that water molecules can come into formation at certain temperature. You denied that using your crap explanation. Now, you try to change the subject after I've shown you an experiment in the past that showed organized molecules such as organic compounds can come into formation in relatively simple conditions.

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The Laminator

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This is a pathetic attempt to prove falsity by pointing out an area of science that is still being explored.Again, all the experiment did was showed that certain organic molecules can form without divine intervention. Order come from disorder all the time, and I don't know why you still want to hold your belief that it can't.

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The Laminator

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When I took creative writing, I had to hit my head with a hammer all year long to get an A in the class. I'm not good at deciphering messages such as this, especially one in a single sentence structure. Also, English ain't my first language.In other words, what the hell are you talking about?

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The Laminator

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Years of beating my head with a hammer made me write clear like this. I can crank out papers fairly quickly. However, I am terrible at writing poetry or interpreting novels that were written in romantic (not sex romantic) format. If I ever get my hands on a time machine, I will go back in time and kick the crap out of Mary Shelly for writing Frankenstein. Then, I will go to Russia and beat the crap out of Dostoevsky for writing Demons. I absolutely hate those books with all my heart.

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The Laminator

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Easy there, frog. People that doesn't have the scientific background like you tend to have a hard time understanding your description of gravity there. That's why dictionaries define gravity in much simpler term so that normal people could understand.

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The Laminator

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