Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 74 (8963 total)
61 online now:
caffeine, PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat), Tangle (4 members, 57 visitors)
Newest Member: Samuel567
Post Volume: Total: 870,987 Year: 2,735/23,288 Month: 926/1,809 Week: 45/313 Day: 1/44 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Biblical Creation / An Introduction
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 24 (10575)
05-29-2002 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Peter
03-04-2002 8:59 AM


I also think there were more than two humans Created by God but Adam & Eve were the "leaders".

And about the Earth being the center wasn't that put forth by Ptolemy? Hence the term Ptolemaic system... And adhered to by Aristotle? I am sure it was the Aritotleans at the universities that pushed the church to this geocentric model and had Galileo ex-communicated.

------------------
John Paul


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Peter, posted 03-04-2002 8:59 AM Peter has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Joe Meert, posted 05-29-2002 3:14 PM John Paul has responded

Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 4095 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 17 of 24 (10576)
05-29-2002 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by John Paul
05-29-2002 3:07 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by John Paul:
[B]I also think there were more than two humans Created by God but Adam & Eve were the "leaders".[/QUOTE]

JM: Now there's an interesting piece of biblical exegesis! ROTFL, but the flood is literal, right?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by John Paul, posted 05-29-2002 3:07 PM John Paul has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by John Paul, posted 05-29-2002 3:58 PM Joe Meert has responded
 Message 23 by Peter, posted 06-11-2002 6:50 AM Joe Meert has not yet responded

John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 24 (10579)
05-29-2002 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Joe Meert
05-29-2002 3:14 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Joe Meert:
JM: Now there's an interesting piece of biblical exegesis! ROTFL, but the flood is literal, right?

John Paul:
Real brilliant response. Must have taken your whole IQ of 10 to think of that one. I guess the people in the Bible didn't go to the bathroom either- I can't find it in the Bible saying they did.

Only a dolt would think that every detail is in the Bible. How many whales were Created? How many plants?

Go buy a vowel ...

------------------
John Paul


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Joe Meert, posted 05-29-2002 3:14 PM Joe Meert has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Percy, posted 05-29-2002 4:51 PM John Paul has not yet responded
 Message 20 by Joe Meert, posted 05-29-2002 4:56 PM John Paul has not yet responded
 Message 21 by Jeff, posted 06-03-2002 7:03 PM John Paul has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19418
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 19 of 24 (10583)
05-29-2002 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by John Paul
05-29-2002 3:58 PM


John Paul writes to Joe Meert:

Real brilliant response. Must have taken your whole IQ of 10 to think of that one.

I hope you feel better now.


I also think there were more than two humans Created by God but Adam & Eve were the "leaders".

I think this proposal has a significant problem with Christian theology. If God created more humans than just Adam and Eve then we are not all necessarily descendents of Adam and Eve, and hence we are not all necessarily inheritors of original sin.


Only a dolt would think that every detail is in the Bible.

But that wasn't Joe's point. You believe the Bible is literally inerrant but that it is permissible to resolve problems and/or contradictions by presuming missing information. But once you've opened this door then information could be missing anywhere, not just in obvious places like the origin of Cain's wife.

So perhaps there are unmentioned eons of creation. Perhaps there is a missing explanation that the whole world didn't literally mean the entire world, but just Noah's region. And perhaps there's a missing clarification about the created kinds that there was no requirement that they remain fixed for all time.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by John Paul, posted 05-29-2002 3:58 PM John Paul has not yet responded

Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 4095 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 20 of 24 (10584)
05-29-2002 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by John Paul
05-29-2002 3:58 PM


quote:
Originally posted by John Paul:
John Paul:
Real brilliant response. Must have taken your whole IQ of 10 to think of that one. I guess the people in the Bible didn't go to the bathroom either- I can't find it in the Bible saying they did.

Only a dolt would think that every detail is in the Bible. How many whales were Created? How many plants?

Go buy a vowel ...


JM: I'll take "Y". I always love it when it acts like a vowel. How do you decide what details are missing and therefore subject to JP's exegesis? It seems to me that ye-creationism is built upon these missing details. Maybe that explains why details are always missing in their explanations. Thanks for clearing this up.

Cheers

Joe Meert


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by John Paul, posted 05-29-2002 3:58 PM John Paul has not yet responded

Jeff
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 24 (10905)
06-03-2002 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by John Paul
05-29-2002 3:58 PM


quote:
Originally posted by John Paul:
John Paul:
I guess the people in the Bible didn't go to the bathroom either- I can't find it in the Bible saying they did.

Only a dolt would think that every detail is in the Bible.
How many whales were Created? How many plants?

Jeff:
There you have it, folks, from the source. JP stipulates that the ToE fits nicely into the bible & no explanations necessary. It was over the ancient Hebrews' heads anyway, so God kept the details to Himself.

Only a dolt would think otherwise.
Right, John Paul ?

regards,

jeff


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by John Paul, posted 05-29-2002 3:58 PM John Paul has not yet responded

Jet
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 24 (11241)
06-10-2002 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Mister Pamboli
02-26-2002 11:41 AM


While I am willing to declare that they both have many qualifications, I found no information on either Dr. Bert Thompson or Dr. Brad Harrub that would lead me to the conclusion that their opinions on the matter should outweigh numerous Hebrew scholars who totally disagree with their assertions on the exact same meaning of different Hebrew words. Their assertions, and yours, would be no more correct than if I were to assert that my saying, "I birthed a baby boy" (indicating that I personally gave birth to my son), carries the exact same meaning as my saying, "I had a baby boy" (indicating that my wife had given birth to our son). Words mean things and specific words have specific meanings. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Shalom

Jet

------------------
"KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! FEED YOUR BRAIN!".....................Jet

"The scientist's pursuit of the past ends in the moment of creation. This is an exceedingly strange development, unexpected by all but the theologians. Now we would like to pursue that inquiry farther back in time, but the barrier to further progress seems insurmountable.

It is not a matter of another year, another decade of work, another measurement, or another theory; at this moment it seems as though science will never be able to raise the curtain on the mystery of creation.

For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Mister Pamboli, posted 02-26-2002 11:41 AM Mister Pamboli has not yet responded

Peter
Member (Idle past 2338 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 23 of 24 (11294)
06-11-2002 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Joe Meert
05-29-2002 3:14 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Joe Meert:
JM: Now there's an interesting piece of biblical exegesis! ROTFL, but the flood is literal, right?

To be fair here ... JP was replying to my post in which
I suggested that the people created in Genesis ch.1 were
NOT Adam and Eve, but that they were created afterwards
specificaly to inhabit Eden.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Joe Meert, posted 05-29-2002 3:14 PM Joe Meert has not yet responded

Jet
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 24 (11673)
06-16-2002 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by doctrbill
02-26-2002 9:08 PM


Originally posted by doctrbill: Where is it the scripture "clearly states" that the doctrine of ex nihilo creation is "legitimate"? (chapter and verse please)

***After reading this portion of your post, I could not help but wonder if you actually read my entire post, as the information you request was provided in the very post to which you have responded.***Jet

doctrbill: You have been shown where it clearly states otherwise.

***I have? Please refresh my memory. In what post was I shown this?***Jet

doctrbill: Were humans spoken into existence (ex nihilo) by command of God on the sixth day? Or was the man made from mud and the woman made later from a piece of the man?

***Again, I must wonder if you actually read my entire post. You ask questions that were answered in the very post to which you have responded. "In the beginning God "created" the heavens and the earth."[Genesis 1:1] The word translated here as created is a clear indication of God creating Ex Nihilo. "And God "formed" man of the dust of the ground..."[Genesis 2:8] Again, here is a clear indication of God using existing material in His acts of creation. Now I accept the fact that this line of thinking is not accepted by all Bible scholars, and that I must rely, in part, on commentary from some, while rejecting commentary from others. This is my personal choice, and, based upon my own personal studies of the scriptures, I believe that I have made the correct choice. If you choose to reject that line of thinking, and choose to accept other commentary, I have no problem with that. Agree to disagree.***

Shalom

Jet

------------------
“As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?”

Prof. George Greenstei


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by doctrbill, posted 02-26-2002 9:08 PM doctrbill has not yet responded

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020