you don't think Hamas, Al-Auqsa, the PA, and Al-Jazeera spread propaganda with the conscious and/or unconscious intent of rousing anger against Israel?
Okay, maybe you missed all my earlier posts? I have taken a strong position against Hamas, and though I have not mentioned them yet I would include most of al-aqsa. There is DEFINITE extremism within them and it is not helpful. I think it is scandalous that they encourage violent and suicidal thinking rather than actual problem-solving.
I think you are generally wrong about the PA and Al-Jazeera. The PA is where most of the moderates have some voice and some strength. It is very hard for me to believe you have listened to Hanan Ashwari, or Qurie. Even Arafat these days seems quite moderate (when there hasn't just been an attack killing Palestinians). And Al-Jazeera plays news from an arab perspective. All I can say is that they are... at worst... and arab FOX.
But you are also being unfair. There are many jewish extremist groups and media. They also teach their kids that the land which was the rightful property of Palestinians is BY RIGHT FROM GOD their own. Thus they are teaching kids from the get go that there will be no fair solution and there should be no fair solution. They also teach kids that Jews that kill Palestinians are heroes for God.... gee does any of this sound familiar?
The only reason we do not see this as much as all the hype about the madras's (which I do agree are bad) is because WE HAVE A BIASED MEDIA. Go look for yourself. Hell, tell them you are Jewish and willing to enlist in their cause, boy will you get an eyeful.
I agree that the Israeli leadership should NOT encourage any renegade civilian terrorism on their part and should imprison those who have done so as should the PA imprison the renegade terrorists on their side as well.
No offense, but you need to do some homework. Sharon encouraged the assassination of the Israeli PM who was actually successful in negotiating with Arafat. The two had a good relationship and Sharon's extremist faction branded him a traitor for being willing to negotiate any land to Palestinians. Boom he was killed. Sharon also sat by and opened up a refuge camp so that a Xian extremist group could massacre almost all of them.
He was set for trial over this in the world court, but had the case thrown out on technicalities (because he had the US step on Belgium to introduce legislation that would specifically make him untouchable).
This is why the burden falls on the Israelis. Not only are they the ones with the real power, they have NO EXCUSE for allowing the extremism to continue from their side. The moderate Palestinians have a gov't ready to negotiate, and are struggling to deal with the extremists among them. In Isreal the extremists have control of the gov't and take every opportunity to crush moderates within their own country as well as literally crushing Palestinian moderates.
I am still wondering how the PA is expected to wield any power against the extremist factions when their jails and courts and police are being destroyed and killed by ISRAEL!
The PA needs to be empowered by both Israel and the US as a way for the moderates to regain control and reach a settlement.
Israel has gone to GREAT lengths to try and appease the PA at the negotiating table, but it is obvious that they will not be appeased unless Israel just vanishes altogether
This is completely false. Some members of the Israeli gov't have IN THE PAST, tried to reach a settlement. NONE of the offers were GREAT lengths towards even reaching justice much less appeasement. The best that could be said is that they were willing to compromise AT ALL.
In complete contrast to what you just said, it was the Palestinian leadership that went to appease the Israelis. They were the ones that actually had to cede land to appease the desires of Israel.
Indeed they were doing so when extremist Israelis assassinated their own PM in order to kill the agreement. Wow what flexibility!
You do know this right? Arafat and the Israeli PM were getting close to working things out and it was ISRAELIS who killed the Israeli PM... not PALESTINIANS. And that it was basically on the word of the current Israeli PM?
I do agree that after that Arafat should have realized justice was not going to be coming anytime soon, and when he had the option with Barak he should have taken it, or at least kept negotiating. Even he has admitted this was an error.
The only error Sharon admits to is not having murdered Arafat when he had the chance. (Yeah, he actually said this).
Who is the man of peace?
How long does a nation have to be established before people forget the past and simply move on from where things are at present? Are the Native Americans justified in blowing up buildings in America because America took their lands a hundred and thirty years ago?
I think this is an honest question and think EVERYONE ought to be interested in the solution of this question. It involves concepts of justice and practicality.
Now my friend, in the context of this debate, given the above position: How can you be FOR ISRAEL?
You do understand that Israel did not exist until ~1945. And before that the entire region was a mix of races and religions dating back over 1 thousand years? I think its 3000 years.
At the time Hitler was urging a homeland for the arian race, there was a jewish movement to found a jewish homeland. After the war, Britain helped them found Israel, by simply drawing borders around jewish areas and connecting them by including nonjewish ones (as long as it would NOT mean jews would become a voting minority).
The rational from the jewish side, and you have seen it echoed here in at least two posts, is that it was fair because that was their homeland over 1000 years ago! You just called into question Palestinians wanting land from less than 50 years ago, and Indians from 130. So WHY do zionists get to have some claim reaching back over 1000 years?
I agree with you, it MAKES NO SENSE. And the move totally disenfranchised non-jews in the area.
Like I said, if suddenly your friends and family were designated by some self proclaimed "chosen people", acting through an international body that did not care about you, to be in another nation in which they CANNOT BE ALLOWED to become a majority, and you are left with no government at all (unless you agree to the idea your friends and family are NOT part of that government)... how would you feel? I'd be fighting mad.
Again, these young kids are fighting for an old cause, which has now become illegitimate. Why? because power-hungry land-mad organizations are using them as pawns in their lust for more.
That's funny, because by this description I can't tell which side you are talking about. The only ones asking for MORE LAND are the Israelis, so that they can regain their old empire.
While I agree that strategically the PA ought to start conceding land which is rightfully their own in order to end the madness and focus on a future, that does not change one bit the fact that the injustice was done to THEM and that they are not asking for MORE LAND (just their own).
I think its a very convenient way to wash ones hands to say the injustice has been done so they are wrong for still wanting it addressed, especially if you are in support of Israel which is the recreation of a Biblical era state which is anything but a "free" democracy.
Indeed, let's say the PA cedes all the disputed lands and is unable to return any of their people to Israeli territory (which is NOT the same thing and Israelis are firmly against). So what are they getting in the negotiation? Oh yeah, they won't be killed by Israelis anymore. Hm.... what a fair deal.
And after that appeasement, what is the life for the minorities within Israel? Those that MUST remain minorities?
I am uncertain how anyone with a sense of justice is not offended to the core by the very concept of Israel in general, and what must be done to keep it "racially pure and/or dominant" in specific.
holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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