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Author Topic:   Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2
PaulK
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Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 2 of 149 (146065)
09-30-2004 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dpardo
09-30-2004 12:28 PM


Just a question, do you accept that Genesis 1:20 describes the creation of birds on the 4th day ? And that 1:26-27 describing the creation of man are placed in the 5th day ?
Do you also accept that Genesis 2:18-19 places the creation of birds after that of man ?

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 Message 1 by dpardo, posted 09-30-2004 12:28 PM dpardo has replied

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 Message 3 by dpardo, posted 09-30-2004 1:29 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 6 of 149 (146098)
09-30-2004 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by dpardo
09-30-2004 1:29 PM


To avoid worrying about matters that are essentially irrelevant I'll amend the question to whether you accept that Genesis 1 places the creation of birds on the day preceding the creation of Man.
(To explain the numbering of the days, it depends on whether you read the numbers as referring to the day that has just passed or the dy that has just started. The Jewish day starts in the evening and the phrase "there was evening and there was morning" follows the description of the work, and precedes the number:
e.g:
quote:
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.
13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
Since the evening - the start of the day - appears to follow the work in verse 12 I read "the third day" as referring to the following day with the creative work starting in the morning and descirbed in the following verses)

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 Message 3 by dpardo, posted 09-30-2004 1:29 PM dpardo has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 8 of 149 (146109)
09-30-2004 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by dpardo
09-30-2004 1:52 PM


OK. What about Genesis 2:18-19 ? Doesn't that put the creation of birds after that of Man ?

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 Message 7 by dpardo, posted 09-30-2004 1:52 PM dpardo has replied

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 Message 9 by dpardo, posted 09-30-2004 2:15 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 17 of 149 (146138)
09-30-2004 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by dpardo
09-30-2004 2:15 PM


There's a reaon why I stated that I was using Genesis 2:18-19. Is there a reason why you took Genesis 2:19 out of context, omitting 2:18 even though I had specifically mentioned it ?
Genesis 2:18
quote:
18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."
Now I do not presume in advance that these verses must contradict - that would bias the result as much as assuming that they cannot.
Can you show that it is reasonable to read the verses in question in a way that does not contradict without relying on the assumption that they cannot ?

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 Message 9 by dpardo, posted 09-30-2004 2:15 PM dpardo has replied

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 Message 18 by dpardo, posted 09-30-2004 3:03 PM PaulK has not replied
 Message 21 by dpardo, posted 09-30-2004 8:59 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 25 of 149 (146413)
10-01-2004 3:44 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by dpardo
09-30-2004 8:59 PM


No, Genesis 2:18 does NOT refer to the creation of Eve. Are you incapable of reading in context ? Eve is created in Genesis 2:21-22.
Did your "Holy Spirit" tell you otherwise ?
I specifically stated that Genesis 2:18-19 were the verses that put the creation of birds after the creation of Man - yet you insist on taking both verses individually rather than reading them together.
And I asked for a reasonable reading of the verses - which means that you have to offer an interpretation that does not require distorting or misrepresenting them. Well you already failed THAT. I take it that your idea of being "reasonable" is to refuse to read the verses together so that you can pretend that the contradiction doesn't exist. That is not reasonable at all.

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 Message 21 by dpardo, posted 09-30-2004 8:59 PM dpardo has replied

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 Message 30 by dpardo, posted 10-01-2004 3:19 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 37 of 149 (146577)
10-01-2004 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by dpardo
10-01-2004 3:19 PM


I guess that either you are playing games or you are unable to read two consecutive verses in the Bible. Is it REALLY too difficult for you to read Genesis 2:18-19 together ?
No, Genesis 2:18 is NOT referring to the creation of Eve - that is the eventual outcome of the decision. But first God creates animals and birds in an attempt to find a suitable helper.

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 Message 30 by dpardo, posted 10-01-2004 3:19 PM dpardo has replied

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 Message 38 by dpardo, posted 10-01-2004 5:57 PM PaulK has not replied
 Message 42 by jar, posted 10-01-2004 7:09 PM PaulK has not replied
 Message 53 by dpardo, posted 10-02-2004 7:48 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 72 of 149 (146961)
10-03-2004 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by dpardo
10-02-2004 7:48 PM


quote:
Do you honestly think God created animals and birds (male and female) in an attempt to create a suitable helper for Adam rather than just create a female version of him first?
That seems to be what you're saying. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
Of course I don't believe it. It's just what the Bible says.

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