|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: A listing of the contradictions and errors in the bible. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Has this file been shown here before?
Subject: A List of Biblical ContradictionsBy: Jim Meritt Date: 1992-07-24 Contradictions -- The Bible is riddled with repetitions andcontradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark -- is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem -- a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ'f father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan. Of the various methods I've seen to "explain" these:1. "That is to be taken metaphorically" In other words, what is written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially for those who decide what ISN'T to be taken as other than the absolute WORD OF GOD - which just happens to agree with the particular thing they happen to want... 2. "There was more there than...." This is used when one verse says"there was a" and another says "there was b", so they decide there was "a" AND "b" -which is said nowhere. This makes them happy, since it doesn't say there WASN'T "a+b". But it doesn't say there was "a+b+litle green martians". This is often the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e. only "a") and the only way. I find it entertaining they they don't mind adding to verses. 3. "It has to be understood in context" I find this amusing because itcomes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set is suppose to be taken as THE TRUTH when if you add more to it it suddenly becomes "out of context". How many of you have goten JUST John 3:16 (taken out of all context) thrown up at you? 4. "there was just a copying/writing error" This is sometimes calleda "transcription error", as in where one number was meant and an incorrect one was copied down. Or that what was "quoted" wasn't really what was said, but just what the author thought was said when he thought it was said. And that's right - I'm not disagreeing with events, I'm disagreeing with what is WRITTEN. Which is apparently agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the bible itself is wrong. 5. "That is a miracle". Naturally. That is why it is stated as fact. 6. "God works in mysterious ways" A useful dodge when the speaker doesn'tunderstand the conflict between what the bible SAYS and what they WISH it said. ============================================================================= REFERENCES: The King James version of the Bible. quotes provided. Self-contradictions of the Bible.William Henry Burr ISBN 0-87975 416 -8 Burr, William Henry, 1819-1908.Self-contradictions of the Bible / William Henry Burr ; with an introduction by R. Joseph Hoffmann. [Buffalo, NY : Prometheus Books], c1987. Series title: Classics of Biblical criticism. UCB Moffitt BS533 .B798 1987 UCD Main Lib BS533 .B798 1987 Cooper, Robert, secularist.The "Holy Scriptures" analyzed, or, Extracts from the Bible : shewing its contradictions, absurdities and immoralities / by Robert Cooper. 2nd ed., to which is added, a vindication of the work. Manchester, [Greater Manchester] : J. Cooper, 1840. Series title: Goldsmiths'-Kress library of economic literature ; no. 31887. UCLA AGSMgmt H 31 G57 Microfilm DeHaan, M. R.508 answers to Bible questions : with answers to seeming Bible contradictions / M.R. DeHaan. Grand Rapids, Mich. : Zondervan, [1968?], c1952. UCSB Library BS538 .D43 1968 Thaddaeus, Joannes, fl. 1630.The reconciler of the Bible inlarged : wherein above three thousand seeming contradictions throughout the Old and New Testament are fully and plainly reconciled ... / by J.T. and T.M. .. London : Printed for Simon Miller ..., 1662. Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1052:9. UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform Poole, Matthew, 1624-1679.Annotations upon the Holy Bible. Vol. II : wherein the sacred text is inserted, and various readings annex'd, together with the parallel scriptures : the more difficult terms in each verse are explained,... The third edition, with the addition of a new concordance and tables, by Mr. Sam. Clark; the whole corrected and amended by the said Mr. Sam. Clark and Mr. Edward Veale .. London : Printed for Thomas Parkhurst [and 6 others], MDCXCVI [1696]. Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1041:1. UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform "the x-rated bible" by ben edward akerley, published byamerican atheist press, austin texas, 1985. =============================================================================A good source of _literal_ Biblical self-contradictions is (surprise) "Self-Contradictions of the Bible", written by William Henry Burr in 1859 as a response to fundamentalism. It is currently published by Prometheus Books, 700 East Amherst St., Buffalo, NY 14215. P.B. also publishes a large number of books on religious inquiry and biblical critiques, the majority of which have a humanistic/atheistic slant. As far as "Self-Contradictions ..." goes, it contains about 140 textual inconsistencies, classified under "Theological Doctrines", "Moral Precepts", "Historical Facts", and "Speculative Doctrines." ============================================================================= "The Bible Handbook" is a compilation of several previous works by several authors, including W P Ball, G W Foote, and John Bowden. Also, the writing by Mr Foote is dated 1900, so we see that this is not a new endeavor. _The Bible Handbook_ by W.P. Ball, et al., available for nine dollars from the the American Atheist Press, P.O. Box 2117, Austin TX 78768-2117. It's a collection of biblical contradictions, absurdities, atrocities, immoralities, indecencies, obscenities, unfulfilled prophecies and broken promises. This 372-page volume will give the atheist tons of scriptural ammunition for shooting down the flimsy arguments of the reality impaired. ============================================================================= Additional contributions were given by: markn@mot.com (DX560 Mark Nowak) JHAYNES@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU loren%sunlight.llnl.gov@lll-lcc.llnl.gov lmoikkan@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU gerry@cs.cmu.edu gerry@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu smith_w@apollo.hp.com icsu7039@caesar.cs.montana.edu XWUU@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU bjorn%consens.UUCP@nac.no EETLO29%TECHNION@TAUNIVM.TAU.AC.IL refling@envy.eng.uci.edu mgo@inel.gov rkp@drutx.att.com daveh@sequent.com markn%mot.com@tin.berkeley.edu aa485@cleveland.freenet.edu (John Strekal) ============================================================================= >God good to all, or just a few? PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works. JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fa-thers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. ============================================================================= >War or Peace? EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.============================================================================= > Who is the father of Joseph? MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom wasborn Jesus, who is called Christ. LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years ofage, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, =============================================================================> Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it : MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn towardthe first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Marythe mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early,when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. =============================================================================>Is Jesus equal to or lesser than? JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one. JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and comeagain unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. =============================================================================>which first--beasts or man? GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, andcattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the manshould be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. ============================================================================= >number of beasts in the ark GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens,the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, andof fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. ============================================================================= >how many stalls and horsemen? KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for hischariots, and twelve thousand horsemen. CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses andchariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem. ============================================================================= >folly to be wise or not? PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: andwith all thy getting get understanding. ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that in-creaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. 1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wilbring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." ============================================================================= >human vs. ghostly impregnation ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God hadsworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, ac- cording to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When ashis mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came togeth- er, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. ============================================================================= >sins of the father ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity oftheir fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the chil-dren, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. ============================================================================= >The bat is not a bird. LEV 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abominationamong the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomina- tion: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, LEV 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind; LEV 11:15 Every raven after his kind; LEV 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, LEV 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, LEV 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, LEV 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapw- ing, and the bat. DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the ea- gle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind, DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind, DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan, DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cor- morant, DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. ============================================================================= >Rabbits do not chew their cud. LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but dividethnot the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 'Gerah', the term which appears in the MT means (chewed) cud, andalso perhaps grain, or berry (also a 20th of a sheckel, but I think that we can agree that that is irrelevant here). It does *not* mean dung, and there is a perfectly adequate Hebrew word for that, which could have been used. Furthermore, the phrase translated 'chew the cud' in the KJV is more exactly 'bring up the cud'. Rabbits do not bring up anything; they let it go all the way through, then eat it again. The description given in Leviticus is inaccurate, and that's that. Rabbits do eat their own dung; they do not bring anything up and chew on it. ============================================================================= > Insects do NOT have four feet. LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thingthat goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth; LEV 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind. LEV 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you. ============================================================================= >Snails do not melt. PSA 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them passaway: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun. ============================================================================= >fowl from waters or ground? GEN 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly themoving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. GEN 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beastof the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. ============================================================================= > odd genetic engineering GEN 30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and broughtforth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted. ============================================================================= >shape of the earth ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding highmountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Astromical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exteriorsurface from anyplace. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed. ============================================================================= >Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt. GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thouhast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: ============================================================================= >earth supported? JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, andhangeth the earth upon nothing. JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of theearth? declare, if thou hast understanding. >Heaven, too...}JOB 26:11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at }his reproof. ============================================================================= >hydrological cycle ECC 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is notfull; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again. JOB 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? orhast thou seen the treasures of the hail, Storehouses are not part of the cycle============================================================================= } order of creastion Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition: Day 1: Sky, Earth, lightDay 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!) Day 3: Plants Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids) Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.) Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time) Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did) Note that there are "days", "evenings", and "mornings" beforethe Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim", which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods". In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good". The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes: Earth and heavens (misty)Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth) Plants Animals Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib) =============================================================================How orderly were things created? #1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three "days". #2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things) ============================================================================= How satisfied with creation was he? #1: God says "it was good" after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied. #2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things) ============================================================================= > Moses's personality Num.12:3: "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the fact of the earth." Num.31:14, 17, 18: "And Moses was wroth...And Moses said unto them, "Have yesaved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, ... But all the women children ... keep alive for yourselves." ============================================================================= >righteous live? Ps.92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree." Isa.57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."============================================================================= Acts 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out." Matt. 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple,and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field." ============================================================================= >Jesus' first sermon plain or mount? Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...." Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..." ============================================================================= >Jesus' last words Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded u the ghost." Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, untothy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It isfinished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." !@# ============================================================================= >years of famine II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shallSEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee? I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith theLORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destryed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; ============================================================================= >moved David to anger? II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah. I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David tonumber Israel. ============================================================================= >The GENEALOGY OF JESUS? In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) is mentioned. Matthew 1:6-16 and Luke 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus(PBUH). The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when all Muslims and most Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father. ============================================================================= >God be seen? Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9 God CAN be seen: "And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23) "And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11) "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30) God CANNOT be seen: "No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18) "And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20) "Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16) ============================================================================= >CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD: "I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling." "The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11)"For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34) "The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (Ps. 145:9) "God is love." (1 John 4:16) ============================================================================= >tempts? "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (Gen 22:1) "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for Godcannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (James 1:13) ============================================================================= >Judas died how? "And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5) "And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of hisbowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18) ============================================================================= > ascend to heaven "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11) "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven,... the Son of Man." (John 3:13) ============================================================================= What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial? Before the cock crow - Matthew 26:34 Before the cock crow twice - Mark 14:30============================================================================= >How many times did the cock crow? MAR 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called tomind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept. MAT 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I knownot the man. And immediately the cock crew. MAT 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly. LUK 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. Andimmediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew. LUK 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. JOH 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for mysake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, still thou hast denied me thrice. JOH 18:27 Peter then denied again: and immediately the cockcrew. =============================================================================>who killed Saul SA1 31:4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword,and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. SA1 31:5 And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died with him. SA1 31:6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armourbearer, and all his men, that same day together. SA2 1:15 And David called one of the young men, and said, Gonear, and fall upon him. And he smote him that he died. =============================================================================>How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount MAT 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the king-dom of heaven. MAT 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comfort- ed. MAT 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. MAT 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. MAT 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. MAT 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. MAT 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. MAT 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteous- ness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. MAT 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and per- secute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. LUK 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said,Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. LUK 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh. LUK 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. LUK 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets. =============================================================================>Does every man sin? KI1 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man thatsinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near; CH2 6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man whichsinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near; PRO 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure frommy sin? ECC 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doethgood, and sinneth not. JO1 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, andthe truth is not in us. JO1 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to for- give us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. JO1 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. JO1 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for hisseed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. ============================================================================= >who bought potter's field ACT 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of ini-quity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. ACT 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Acelda- ma, that is to say, The field of blood. MAT 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said,It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. MAT 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in. MAT 27:8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day. =============================================================================>Who prophesied the potter's field Matthew 27:9-10 (mentions Jeremy but no such verse in Jeremiah) is in Zechariah 11:12-13 ============================================================================= >who bears guilt? GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law ofChrist. GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden. =============================================================================>Do you answer a fool? PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thoualso be like unto him. PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wisein his own conceit. =============================================================================> How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have? SA2 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child untothe day of her death. SA2 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughterof Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite: =============================================================================>How old whas Jehoiachin when he began to reign? KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began toreign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem. CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign,and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD. =============================================================================>marriage? Proverbs 18:22 1 Corinthians 7 (whole book. See 1,2,27,39,40) ============================================================================= >Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice? ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless,hearing a voice, but seeing no man. ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, andwere afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. =============================================================================>Where was Jesus three days after his baptism? MAR 1:12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilder-ness. JOH 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of hisdisciples; (various trapsing) =============================================================================>How many apostles were in office between the resurection and ascention 1 Corinthians 15:5 (12) Matthew 27:3-5 (minus one from 12) Acts 1:9-26 (Mathias not elected until after resurrection) MAT 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, intoa mountain where Jesus had appointed them. ============================================================================= Judging 1 Cor 3:15 " The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" (NIV) 1 Cor 4:5 " Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till theLord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God." =============================================================================Good deeds Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV) Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know whatyour right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secert. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV) =============================================================================>for or against? MAT 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he thatgathereth not with me scattereth abroad. (default is against) MAR 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.(default is for) LUK 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that isnot against us is for us. (default is for) =============================================================================Whom did they see at the tomb? MAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for theangel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. MAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. MAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young mansitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. LUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexedthereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: JOH 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at thehead, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. =============================================================================>God change? malachi 3:6 james 1:17 1 samuel 15:29 jonah 3:10 genesis 6:6 ============================================================================= >destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah) MAT 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy theprophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; zechariah 11:11-13(nothing in Jeremiah remotely like) ============================================================================= >who's sepulchres acts 7:16 genesis 23:17,18 ============================================================================= >strong drink? proverbs 31:6,7 john 2:11-11 ============================================================================= >When second coming? MAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,till all these things be fulfilled. MAR 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall notpass, till all these things be done. LUK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not passaway, till all be fulfilled. 1 thessalonians 4:15-18============================================================================= Solomon's overseers 550 in I Kings 9:23 250 in II Chron 8:10 =============================================================================The mother of Abijah: Maachah the daughter of Absalom 2 Chron 9:20 Michaiah the daughter of Uriel 2 Chron 13:2 =============================================================================When did Baasha die? 26th year of the reign of Asa I Kings 16:6-8 36th year of the reign of Asa I 2 Chron 16:1 =============================================================================How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign? 22 in 2 Kings 8:26 42 in 2 Chron 22:2 =============================================================================WHo was Josiah's successor? Jehoahaz - 2 Chron 36:1 Shallum - Jeremiah 22:11 ============================================================================= The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah. =============================================================================What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial? scarlet - Matthew 27:28 purple John 19:2 =============================================================================What did they give him to drink? vinegar - Matthew 27:34 wine with myrrh - Mark 15:23============================================================================= How long was Jesus in the tomb? Depends where you look; Matthew 12:40 gives Jesus prophesying that he will spend "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth", and Mark 10:34 has "after three days (meta treis emeras) he will rise again". As far as I can see from a quick look, the prophecies have "after three days", but the post-resurrection narratives have "on the third day". =============================================================================
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by Philip:
Call it great arsenal, Andya, but his disrespect for your Koran is even more obvious in his attack. Do you see any of his dissonance with your Koran? Of course not! He sought out the Bible as the foremost enemy to his way of life, not the Koran. Hey, Apologist, this is "The Bible: Accuracy and Inerrancy" so I posted a listing of the many contradictions found in the bible to show just inaccurate a statement that truly is. Get a clue. BTW, your apologenics are meaningless. The reasoning to an apologists is that it isn't a lie, or a distortion, when you do it in god's name. You are speculating, or using the speculations of others. Why not ask him what he thinks of the accuracy and inerrancy of the Koran. I feel the same about all dominance based religions. It's nothing personal. Don't be dismayed by his lack of response and apathy in this regard; and his quick disappearance from the thread. Hey, smeghead, I just posted this yesterday and was checking back for responses all day. I do have to sleep you know. His dissonance is with himself and those who believe/deduct a Redeemer-ID, only. Moses, Allah, Buddha, Hindoo, and Voodoo mean nothing to him; he's only against the Redeemer-ID'r (a.k.a., anti-Christ). Get some professional mental help.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
If it were suppose to be the inspired word of god than it wouldn't matter which language it was in. An all-knowing god would be able to take that into account.
Besides, we're not speaking of the so-called "original" texts and manuscripts, but the bible in its current form which is taught to all as being literal, accurate, and inerrant which it is not. Aren't these texts originally written in Aramaic and not Hebrew? [This message has been edited by nos482, 09-02-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
I'm only giving what I'm getting.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
So YECs you should see that when the Hebrew is properly translated as Blitz requires Noah’s flood was NOT global.
Randy So, we are taught a lie? What else is new. The flood myth is not original to the Hebrews either. They got it from their time as slaves of the Babylonians where it had been a story about immortality and the Hebrews "adopted" it and changed it to a story about morality.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by Hanno:
In the reformed tradition, you have to compare scripture with scripture. What some people see as "contradictions" are simply different perspectives of the same event. When you put the two together, you get a more complete picture. Ofcause there are minor details that differ. If you go to court, all the witnesses do not agree to every last detail of an event. In the case of the resurection of Jesus, ofcause there is minor differences in the detail: It was, after all, written some time after the event. More like decades and through third, fourth and more hand and no actual firsthand accounts. But the proof of the Christian faith is in its very existance. Christianity is not the only religious belief system in the world, and there are older religions as well. I.E. Buddhism, and Hinduism. In fact the oldest living religion is Hinduism. In His ultimate wisdom, God made the birth of Christianity very painful for the apostiles. This way, they can not be suspected of alterier motives. Think about it: They spoke of events they saw with their own eyes. Therefore, they were not speaking about posibilities. What they said, was either true or false, and they would know if it's true or false. Let's us suppose they were lieing. What is the motives? Wealth? certainly not. Paul was a roman citizen and a member of the majority religious party. He was a fanatic against the church, and all of a sudden he became an Apostile. He lost all his earthly possesions and freedoms.Fame? Ofcause not. If they where making it up, and did not really believed in the God they were preaching, there were no Guarantee that the their story of a man rising from the dead would catch on. They would've quit after they suffered the amount of persucution they suffered. For all they knew, chances were that Christianity would die out quickly, and they would be forgotten. I can't think of any other reason for them to persist in such hardships other than that they truely believed in Jesus Christ. People die for a lie all of the time. They want something to make them feel more than they truly are. What is more is their witnesses were backed up by thousands of other witnesses. The events they talked about, did not happen somewhere in a cave (Like the revelations to Mohammed) it happened out in the open. People knew what they were talking about.After his resurrection, Jesus apeared to hundreds of people. Surely you can't get hundreds of people to tell exactly the same lie? There are no firsthand accounts in the NT about the life of Christ and Paul never actually met him in the flesh. There are not even any passages in the bible directly from Christ either. That is what some people wants us to believe about the moonlandings! Please, there are far too many firsthand accounts that this event actually occured. I even watched it on live TV at the time. Were they crazy? Go to a nut house and look what you'll find. You won't find 5 crazy people telling the same crazy stories. Crazy people don't work in concert. Well, Bin Laudin managed to get nearly 20 of them to crash into some buildings with airplanes. Why do people think that just because someone is deluded that they can't function? There is no other religion that grew under persucution, while the followers did not fight back with violence. Judaism. Once Christianity took over the Roman Empire, through a deception, they did more than their fair share of tossing people to the lions. BUt what can I expect, most Christian, like you, don't know their actual history. It was because of this deception that they had managed to us the Roman EMpire to impose Christianity on much of the world of the time. If it wasn't for this Christianity would have died out long again. This is because their faith is planted by God Himself. Hardly. Now that we established the motives of the witnesses, it is save to assume their witnesses are true accounts. But what about Jesus himself? He performed multiple wonders where everyone could see it. There were no supernatural power stronger than Him. In fact: demons in possesed people admitted He was God. And so did He. He practiced what he preached. There is a misconception that only the 12 apostiles followed him. Wrong. most of the time, hundreds, even thousands followed him, hearing every word, and seeing every wonder. You see Christianity is founded on witnesses. Undisputable witnesses, even though their detail differ a bit. Again, there are no firsthand accounts in the NT of the life of Christ. Plus, many of his so-called miracles were commonly claimed by many rulers of the time to make themselves look more impressive. In fact his life parallelled many aspects of the Greek god Zeus and his son Apollo. [This message has been edited by nos482, 09-06-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
I don't think I even *have* to demonstrate that this is false. Only if you count a dream. It goes right up there with Mormon arranged marriages, Smith's prophecy that he recorded 20 years after he was dead, and Shakespeare writing the KJV. The first one I didn't say. The second is nonsense and third is wrong. I didn't say that Shakespeare wrote the KJV, I had said that he helped in its translation. Perhaps you meant that there were no accounts in the NT that were written while Christ was alive. But there are firsthand accounts, commonly known as the Gospels. Actually they're not even sure that these were even written by who they were said to be written by. http://clawww.lmu.edu/~fjust/Evangelists.htmPage not found – The Painful Truth-Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God http://admin.muslimsonline.com/babri/rewrite1.htm http://www.cygnus-study.com/pagetim.shtml TempeMasjid.com is for sale | HugeDomains These sources make the Gospels suspect as firsthand accounts since many of them didn't actually appear before the end of the 1st century AD. Also, considering that the average lifespan was around 30 years with a maximum of maybe in the 60's with the possibility of living into one's 70's for the very wealthy, at the time, it is not too likely that they were as they were claimed to be. Actually the Jews did fight back--on many occasions. (1) Throughout the OT. (2) Against the Romans at the Masada. And it did them very little good when they were being persecuted in modern times. The Jews have been the most enslaved people around. Besides, I had actually meant Buddhism. Sometimes I type too fast. RE: The Book of Moron typo. There are just too many damn isms around. [This message has been edited by nos482, 09-07-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
But you would have to prove that point before being correct in saying there were no firsthand accounts. My point is, as long as the Gospels are what they claim to be (and they are unto shown otherwise) theclaim that there are no firsthand accounts is without support. It was also once claimed that the Earth was flat as well with plenty of "firsthand" accounts of this, until they made better ships and some put doubt into that belief. It took centuries for it to be accepted as a fact that it wasn't flat. This is the sort of comfirmation of the validity of the Ghospels you are accepting a tabloid, like the National Enquirer, would use. That a good many people claim it is so without proper and complete verifiation. Again, solely on faith and belief. These are valid points--but it isn't terribly suprising if the manuscripts have been circulating in Palestine and Greece before they reach enough prominence to be referred to by other historical sources that happen to exist today. I would expect a religion to have to to reach a "critical mass" before many references begin to appear. They don't even have the so-called "original" manuscripts at all either anymore. All they have are copies of copies of copies. Also we don't know how long they lived but I think your age expectations are good though I think it is possible that they *could* have reached 70 if they were very lucky (again we don't know). Actually we do know how long the average lifespan was back then. Archeologists and anthropologists (You know what they are) have dug up ancient graveyards and the like and have examined the remains and they come up as being an average of around 28 to 30 years. Plus, the Romans kept good records. If these Gospels are first known from the first century after 1 AD, which we suppose is the year of the crucifixion (and correct me if I'm getting that point mixed up) then these manuscripts would have been handed down from what, one generation? It is counted supossitely from Christ's birth as being the start of the first century. A generation was consider around 13 years. Two? I don't think that's a huge issue based upon the time scales we are working with an margins of error involved. (This is my response to YEC claims of inaccuracy in radiometric dating.) On geographical scales a few million years is just a tick on the clock, but with the scale of a human life (Especially during a time when that was comparatively short) a few decades is a long time. That makes much more sense. I also type too fast, it destroys my grammar (especially tenses), which keeps getting worse over time as I use my computer. That is why they have spell and grammar checkers. Though a spell checker is no help if the word is spelled correctly, but still the wrong one. [This message has been edited by nos482, 09-07-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
Actually the Greeks knew the Earth was roughly spherical and had even calculated the diameter. Don't they teach that in Canada? They were a seafaring people, and had a very high culture in the Arts and Sciences early on unlike much of the rest of the world of the time. Preemptive strike along that line: Columbus did not "prove" the Earth was round either. His motives were more commerical than for knowledge. He also didn't discover America either. The Vikings beat him by 500 years, and maybe the Chinese by a 1000. From what I've seen he never even set foot on the mainland either. The point here is that, though it doesn't prove me right, I have what claims to be a firsthand account and I'm waiting for it to be proven wrong. Until they can be shown to have been actually written by who they are said to be written by they are no different than an eyewitness account of a UFO sighting and anal probing. Actually I'm also waiting for you to prove there is no God or admit that your position is based upon faith. Can't prove a negative. Also we are not looking looking at human life scales we are looking at the age of the religion (2000 years) and the uncertainty of when the crucifixion took places introduces an error margin. Especially since the Romans had no record of a crucifixion of a rebel rabbi name Jesus and they were very good record keepers. Finally you don't know how long the manuscripts existed before they were "found" by other writers of the time. The fossil record comparison and radiometric dating comparisons still stand. There is also to consider that they didn't do all that much writing of their own at the time. Paper, or parchment, was very expensive and not everyone could read, or even write themselves. [This message has been edited by nos482, 09-07-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
That's irrelevant to their knowledge of the shape of the Earth and its diameter. One of the proofs of a spherical Earth is from ships appearing from under the curvature when they return from far at sea. Then by your reasoning we must write the British Museum immediately and inform them that Hammurabi's Code is a fake. After all it claims to be written under the order of Hammurabi but we really have no better testimony than that of some UFO abductee. Apples and oranges. It is a set of laws to live by and many cultures have come up with simular laws. In fact the Hebrews based their ten Commandents on it from their time as slaves of the Babylonians. The Ghospels are suppose to be the account of the life of a person who may or may not have existed. Unlike Christ Hammurabi, or Gilgamish, has been shown to have lived. Also I suppose we should throw out most Shakespearean plays and the works of Homer and Aeschylus. We can discard the works of Hippocrates and Plato's writings on philosophy. Pliny the Younger's account of the destruction of Pompeii? Worthless! We shouldn't fret over the loss of the Great Library after all, it was just a big stack of ancient tabloids... Again, apples and oranges. I know what tactic you are trying to use again and it is nonsense. I believe that you are trying to use the Spotlight Fallacy. The Romans were generally good record keepers. Too bad the Vandals weren't. The quality of a record is irrelevant if the record does not survive. Also, how many people did you think the Romans crucified? Why, they are supposed to have crucified 6,000 of Spartacus' followers in a really big, macabre roadside display along the Appian Way--but can you name any by name? Do you expect that we have a full list, properly indexed, to check? The execution of such an important person would have been recorded by many sources. Enough to survive such a destruction. [This message has been edited by nos482, 09-07-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
It has become quite apparent that it is usless to argue with you since you are a TRUE believer and will more readily accept myth over reality.
One thing though, it was Barabus. not Barnabas. Get your characters straight. Also, according to the myth Barabus' first name was Jesus as well. Actually Jesus wasn't Jesus either, it was Yoshua or Joshua, a very common name of the time. The name used now is a mistranslation. [This message has been edited by nos482, 09-08-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
Running away, are we? Irrelevant. Mere assertion: you have failed to demonstrate anything is a myth. There are none so blind who will not see. Get your fallacies straight. Or better yet, stop using them. I'm not the one using fallacies as arguements. I believe Shakespeare once wrote something along this line. Har har. You still got it wrong.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
You know, YECs are known for getting scarce when they can't fight reason. I'm still here, you've just become irrelevant. I agree. Absolutely. If you agree than open your eyes. If we ignore the ones I've caught you in. You wish. You are projecting, but hey whatever turns your crank. [This message has been edited by nos482, 09-09-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
I've been suggesting the same to you, but you absolutely refuse to accept even the possibility that I am right and have tried circular reasoning and all manner of fallacies to escape it. You're quite the one to tell me to "open my eyes". As I have said before it is not as if I didn't look. I don't have to go to the Moon to know that it isn't made of green cheese There is enough real evidence that it isn't. You're the one who is using fallacies as arguements and you're so deluded that you refuse to see this. Then why don't you try answering to my last post in this thread, in which I reduced your argument to absurdity, as opposed to plugging your ears, planting your head in the sand, and shouting, "Nah-nah-na-nahnah". You really shouldn't be talking to yourself like this. The others, on here, are right about what you have become. [This message has been edited by nos482, 09-10-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
That can be done in a scientific matter because you are dealing with physical phenomena. This is metaphysics. Which branch of science teaches "metaphysics"? The same one which teaches astrology, alchemy, and creationism? Want me to tell you your future by reading the bumps on your head? Where's that mallet? Pseudo-science is not credible science. You have no scientific evidence in favor of or against God. I'm waiting for you to either admit that your position is faith-based or take up the agnostic position and admit that you don't know if any God(s) are real and you don't know if any God(s) are not. I've always stated that I don't know, and neither can you. You're just speculating, or worse wishful thinking. If it is true than it is the cruelest and most evil joke of them all. [Irrelevant crap deleted] [This message has been edited by nos482, 09-11-2002]
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024