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Author | Topic: Where are the Christian Democrats? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
With all the discussions on this board about how the religious right is forcing their agenda upon America, I was wondering, where is the religious left? Why are they so silent?
Christian democrats constitute a large portion of swing voters in this country and just because many of them voted for Bush doesn’t mean they are republicans. Surely republicans don’t hold the monopoly on religious views in our culture. My curiosity was piqued when I came upon this photo of a recent ad campaign by democrats who seem to be doing something about the faith and values message and are taking their case to the streets.
Around the world, Christian Democrats seem to be a fairly large movement with established political parties in several countries. They are far from silent and have an active political voice. But in this country, democratic leaders who take issue with conservative religious views generally do not contest them on religious grounds, but rather contest the very fact that religion was invoked at all. As such, religion has become the bailiwick of the Republican Party, and the Democratic Party is often viewed as the party of secularism. That may be exactly what many on the left truly desire. Ok, but that philosophy won’t win many elections in the US. In light of the disastrous showing by the democrats in November, democrats need to do something and get themselves organized before the mid-term elections. Are ad campaigns such as this going to help or are these tactics going to be perceived as being me too. What would you suggest?
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
Holmes writes: I don't see why you characterize it as disasterous. They did not win, and so Bush is back in office and that might be disasterous, but they did a decent job and got 49% of the vote. They even got mine and I generally dislike Democrats. Some would characterize the election as a disaster solely because Bush won. But I was referring to the other elections which resulted in expanded majorities picked up by the GOP in both the Senate and the House as well as the ouster of Daschle. The only place the dems didn’t lose ground was in the governorships where they broke even.
Holmes writes: In reality the Reps pulled together in an astounding way, with people voting en masse for a lame candidate just to protect the party. The problem, which could be spotted at the convention, is that Reps created some pretty odd bedfellows to make that miracle happen and post election these fellows are waking up to that fact. I don’t believe the majority of people were protecting the party. Moral issues were much more important than protecting the party. Besides, Bush is hardly a lame duck with expanded majorities in both houses of congress. Frankly, I believe Bill Clinton summed it up best: In his speech to the Urban Land Institute, Clinton attributed Kerry's loss to the Democrats' failure to counter how Republicans portrayed them to rural and small-town voters.
quote: I didn't want this thread to rehash the election results. I wanted to move beyond that and discuss democratic strategies for countering the religious right.
Holmes writes: I think the best bet for Dems is to realize they have to hold on to their position as generally center and make Reps aware they are the center at this point. Maybe, but the Dems still need to figure out to appeal to rural and small town voters. They will have the coastal vote. But 2004 proved that's not enough.
Holmes writes: In any case, ads like you cited are just pandering and my guess is that's how it'll be perceived. Indeed it even has the potential to lose people... like me for instance. How on earth can they claim to be for secular gov't if they are busy plastering billboards with messages they are like Jesus. Yeah, I agree. That type of advertising seems fake. Ads like that won’t get republicans to move and at the same time they risk losing some of their base.
Holmes writes: Perhaps they can run that in upcoming Ads. Show a picture of Bush at his inauguration and some democratic candidate on the cross and the caption... "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." hehe.....Republicans can only hope they do that.
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
Crashfrog writes: Who among the Democrats isn't a Christian? Can you name a single atheist in public American politics? I sure can't. I can't either.
Crashfrog writes: At any rate I can think of one prominent Christian Democrat; maybe you've heard of him, he ran for president and all. John Kerry. Ring any bells? Oh yeah, ....Kerry, wasn't he the guy who had all those problems with the veterans?
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
Jar writes: I've wondered where all the Christian Republicans have gone? Since Reagan all I've seen have been exclusionary bigots loudly proclaiming they were Christian Republicans. Their actions though have not been Christian at all. That may be true to a certain extent and fringe groups always tend to be more vocal than the majority. But the point of the OP is that Christian Democrats can't afford to remain silent on faith and family issues if they expect to chip away at Republican control. This message has been edited by Monk, Wed, 06-01-2005 09:08 PM
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
has everybody just lost their common sense? how does good war record = bad war record < no war record? If the Democrats can figure that out, they may have a chance in the next election.
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
The communist stopping America did a lot of damage to those countries that we tried to stop from "turning to the dark side". I think Castro was a hero for stepping up against the machine, and quickly making ties with Russia. And I don't blame Islamists for trying to kill Americans, for we have done much worse over the span of our country's long existence. You need a history referesher. We are not at all like the Roman empire. The fall of Rome occured gradually and had a complex mix of causes. Castro was no hero. He was and is a self serving communist dictator that ruined a thriving Cuban society. As far as Islamist terrorists, they ARE to blame for their inexcusable acts of barbarism. Whatever the US has or has not done in no way excuses their actions. Finally, I have no idea what the My Lai massacre photo has to do with Christian Democrats. You are way way off topic here.
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
Remember, not 20 years ago these guys were heroic figures to US leaders such as Reagan, Bush, and Rummy (well he liked Saddam, I can't remember his position on the Mujahadin). Russian actions against them excused whatever actions these poor terrorists launched against them. And while not an excuse, but an explanation, we were the ones that trained them to do what they are doing now to us. It is actually the work of US taxpayer dollars, coming home to roost. We’ve trained many people in many countries during the course of our history. We’ve also intervened in numerous situations around the world at one time or other but that doesn’t say anything about current relations with those countries. You’ve raised this issue before in other threads and it just doesn’t stand. You’ve posted a photo of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam with the implication that Rumsfeld is a hypocrite. I then asked if Roosevelt was a hypocrite because of the photo with FDR and Stalin at a cordial get together. None of that means anything. We can appear as friends to many countries, then later through the course of world events we become enemies, then friends again and so on. The same is true for other countries. The British were our mortal enemies at one time. We killed them and they killed us. So what. That’s history and is as relevant as your poorly constructed arguments. The other point is that these relations are between nations and leaders of nations. The US leaders you mentioned did not condone the actions of demented terrorist who strap bombs on their backs and who are just as happy to kill their own people as they are to kill westerners whom they view as infidels. These poor terrorist as you call them, were not trained by US taxpayers to blow up schools killing innocent children then scurry away like vermin. They even kill their own people over false rumors about a religious book. Death, mayhem and destruction is their creed. It is their sole purpose for existence and they will not be deterred regardless of how we or anyone else try to reason with them. Your well meaning but naive sympathy for these poor terrorists is ridiculous and insulting.
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
Are you familar with the history of the "School of the Americas"? Why do you ask?
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
Prophex writes: One of the adjectives you used to portray Castro in a negative light sort of angered me, you used the word "communist". And I used the word correctly. That’s because Castro IS a communist.
Prophex writes: Castro's intentions of saving his beloved country from another country's grasp deems him a hero in my eyes, You unfortunately have probaably been affected by the media's portrayal of the man who quickly saved his homeland. Yea, right. Saved his homeland? That’s an absurd joke. You have no idea what you are talking about. Cuba is no utopia. You should open your eyes. Over the past forty years, Cuba has developed a highly effective machinery of repression. The denial of basic civil and political rights is written into Cuban law. In the name of legality, armed security forces, aided by state-controlled mass organizations, silence dissent with heavy prison terms, threats of prosecution, harassment, or exile. Cuba uses these tools to severely restrict the exercise of fundamental human rights of expression, association, and assembly. The conditions in Cuba's prisons are barbaric and inhuman, and political prisoners suffer additional degrading treatment and torture. In recent years, Cuba has added new repressive laws and continued prosecuting nonviolent dissidents while shrugging off international appeals for reform. It’s no wonder that Cubans have the highest suicide rate in Latin America. Suicide is an act of desperation and according to the report entitled Suicide in Cuba and Miami, Cubans are dreadfully miserable compared to Cubans living in Miami. But go ahead and keep apologizing for Castro. You and Carter had something in common.
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
What is your point?
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
How much do you know of Cuba before Castro? I know many things about Cuba before Castro
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Monk Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
This tidbit of a mostly not thought out post disturbs me greatly. You seem to have the impression that you are the only human that matters on the planet I'll say it again, Islamist terrorists ARE to blame for their inexcusable acts of barbarism. Whatever the US has or has not done in no way excuses their actions. If that truth disturbs you then I've made my point.
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