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Author Topic:   The definition of atheism
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1535 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 26 of 101 (224436)
07-18-2005 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by PurpleYouko
07-18-2005 12:42 PM


Re: This atheist agrees.
Hi Mr. Purple Youko!!
purpleyouko writes:
Evidence should never give rise to a belief. Evidence gives rise to tentative conclusions which often lead to theories which outline predictions of future occurences.
Well how about this...take a anvil and hold if over your foot.
Now what evidence do you have that it will :
A: smash the shit out of it.
B. go the opposite direction into space when you release.
You can (BELIEVE) based on evidence or the lack thereof.
Most of what we take as common facts are based on belief.
The news reported by the media, the amount of calories printed on the candy bar wrapper.
Scientific methodology is wonderful in that it has replaced assumptions and speculation with reproducible experiments that can be used to infer facts.
BUT......How many peer reviewed /referenced papers do we really seek out. How many of these experiments do we personally conduct? How much of this data is actually processed by us personally?
We believe it. We believe the sources are reputable and the data valid. But at the end of the day we take them at they're word. JMHO.
By the way you sound like an agnostic to me. Also check out some of the writings of David Hume and the other empiricist.

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-18-2005 12:42 PM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-20-2005 9:06 AM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1535 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 39 of 101 (224955)
07-20-2005 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by PurpleYouko
07-20-2005 9:06 AM


Re: This atheist agrees.
thanks for your reply:
purpleYouko writes:
Experience would lead me to predict that it with(sic)smash the crap out of my foot. I have personally carried out a number of experiments with gravity, physics and a number of other things which lead me to that conclusion. No belief involved.
You do realize that there is no way to KNOW that one set of circumstances has anything to do with another.
Causality is merely postulated. And again we must BELIEVE that the effect was a direct result. We can never really KNOW it for certain. Regardless of how much previous data suggest that the same effect will occur it is still a independant event.
You say experience would lead you to predict that it would smash your foot. So you BELIEVE your prediction to be a plausible one based on your knowlege of gravity and past experiances. You can conclude that you will need a cast.
I believe the sun will rise tomorrow
I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow
I know the sun will rise tomorrow. (really?) and just how do you KNOW?
ok try this one:
I believe I will awaken tomorrow
I have faith I will awaken tomorrow.
I KNOW I will awaken tomorrow. (Really?) how do you Know?
see my point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-20-2005 9:06 AM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-20-2005 7:25 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1535 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 49 of 101 (225106)
07-21-2005 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by PurpleYouko
07-20-2005 7:25 PM


Re: This atheist agrees.
Thanks for your reply.
purple youko writes:
Sure I realize that. Knowing anything for certain is impossible IMO.
Well there is some knowlege that can be known for certain and is unwavering such as mathmatical proofs.
purple youko writes:
I can see where you are coming from but this is where I disagree with you. I don't think belief is necessary at all.
I am beginning to BELIEVE you are on crack.
This is the very statement that provoked me to respond to you in the first place. And after all that tirade and you saying..I agree and" I see where you are coming from" ; you turn around and type the same initial statement. So obviously you do not understand my point.
Here is is a common definition of the word :
BELIEF: 1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: "My belief in you is strong as ever."
2.Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validy of something: "His explanation of what happened defies belief."
3.Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenants accepted by a group of persons.
If it was not for belief we would be paralyzed by the inability to accept data and premises based only on mathmatics and logic.Unless of course your from the planet Vulcan.
purple youko writes:
I do understand what you are trying to say....
I do not think you do and I am not "trying" to say it I AM saying it.
purple youko writes:
...but I just don't see any degree of absolute certainty about anything, anywhere, anytime, anyhow.
Thats fine if your brain washed by the thought police but I am certain that 1+1=2.
purple youko writes:
Without unfounded certainty there is simply no belief.
Without unfounded certainty there is no belief? That is a ridiculous statement. One does NOT have to have certainty to BELIEVE something. Many beliefs are held by people that are not based on facts. Have you ever heard of the word faith?
You are incorrect about beliefs. Belief is a necessary element in how humans make decisions. It is not the only element,
deductive reasoning, logic, mathmatics, scientific methodology are all equally important as well. But to dogmatically dimiss belief as unnecessary is somewhat arrogant. IMO.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-20-2005 7:25 PM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-21-2005 11:35 AM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1535 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 74 of 101 (225456)
07-22-2005 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by PurpleYouko
07-21-2005 11:35 AM


Re: definition of belief.
Ok purple Youko it is obvious that you are incapable of admitting when you are incorrect. You seem to think that all that is required to accept a fact or truth or event is to map the information out mathmatically, logically or conduct an experiment or glean the information by past experience. All I was saying is that although those are all methods we employ to accept information as factual sometimes people simply decide to believe. Without believing we would be left no option but to check every single fact, every single experiment. And although you state you do that I do not "believe" you. Sometimes there is no time to reference data that stringentley. Sometimes ya just have to believe. I will not argue the point any futher with you. Everytime your premise is refuted you wiggle and juggle the words to suit your self contrived definition of the word "belief" as is spoken in the world of PurpleYouko. Just add the letters: {IMO} after those type of statements and no one will be able to refute you own personal opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-21-2005 11:35 AM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-22-2005 12:07 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
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