The definition of atheism

I've seen this issue come up several times in the past. From my memory of my own investigations most dictionaries are compatible with the wider use and specialised sources tend even more strongly to that view (i.e. one book lists agnosticism as a from of atheism).

Your view seems to be very odd. I'd say "I beleive..." to indicate a lack of certainty (as opposed to "I know...").If to beleive means to "accept as true" then if I tentatively accept something as true then I tentatively believe it - by definition. Even if you insist on a binary logic that has truth as an absolute, it does not mean that the acceptance of a statement as true has to be absolute.So I simply cannot understand why you would insist that belief must represent absolute certainty. Such a claim is absolutely contrary to the usage I am familiar with, and not required by the quoted definition.

As I pointed out whether or not "true" is a boolean concept, the question is whether acceptance has to be purely binary - absolute or not at all. If not then there is nothing wrong with the concept of "tentative belief" since it is the "acceptance" that is tentative, not the actual truth of the statement. (and I woudl add that if the actual truth of the statement were at issue it would not be possible to beleive a falsehood).

It's clear that your argument that beleif must be absolute is based on your idea tht truth must be absolute. But what truth could be involved other than the truth of the statement ? So it seems to me that you ARE referring to the truth of the statement that is believed because there is no other truth that is or could be relevant.

I agree. And the reason WHY it is possible is that your understanding of the definition of "believe" is wrong. The truth of the statement - and therefre the absolute nature of that truth (In your binary classificaotion) does not overrule the rest of the definition. THus the presence of "true: in the definition does not demand that the acceptance must be absolute any more than it demands that the beleif must be true.

But the definition of "belief" that you quoted did not say that the acceptance must be absolute, Thus the definition of "belief" does not require absolute certainty.

Well since the quoted definition doesn't specify absolute acceptance and common usage is also against your claim it seems quite clear that you are wrong. This page is generally relevant to the subject of the thread and this paragraph is also relevant to the particulat issue: This message has been edited by PaulK, 07-21-2005 04:58 PM

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I would just like to ask then, what part of "to hold as TRUE" appears to you to allow a "tentative" acceptance?

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The whole of it, in that it makes no reference to how strongly the view is held. Therefore it shoudl be read inclusively, covering everything from tentative to absolute accpetance. (And why capitalise "TRUE" ? There's no good reason to do so)Equally the bolding in your quote is not of great significance. The point is that the term is inclusive and covers a wide range of positions.

Obviously I can't speak to the motivation of others. But I can think of several reasons. For instance anyone who wishes to adhere to Huxley's original definition of agnosticism does not have a term to describe the position of neither beleiing that God does exist or that God does not exist. Thus a new term is needed, and "weak atheist" seems a reasonable coinage.

I don't think that failing to provide all the details is quite the same as being ambiguous. In the case of definitions, if the degree of conviction in a belief is not specified then it should be assumed to cover the entire spectrum from the most extrem absolute to the most tentative. In normal use we should simply accept that that detail is not provided, and ask for clarification if it is needed. If that is not possible, the default assumption should be somewhere in the middle of the range - confident, but not absolutely certain.

You are quoting me out of context. The point under discussion was inferring the degree of confidence placed in a belief, based only on the use of the term "belief" without further qualification.